Patters

The charts are quite interesting, and it's worth noting that the states with the higher murder rates from guns are generally red states. But, it's good to see that since Obama got elected, gun crime has declined.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - there are 89 guns for every 100 Americans, compared to 6 in England and Wales.

And the murder figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 550 murders per year. In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

Real World

#1 We're not England.

#2 We have a 2nd Amendment.

#3 We have a 2nd Amendment because of England.

#4 See #1.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Charlotte Pats Fan

Gun sales have skyrocketed in the past 4 years. How could gun crimes possibly go down with Obama in office?

PatriotsReign

What I really get a kick out of are people who think Obama will go down in history as a great president.

Patters

Of course you wouldn't. He hasn't focused specifically on the interests and special rights of middle aged straight white guys. A large part of that demographic will never regard him as a great president, just as a large part of other demographics will never regard Reagan as a great president. But, if you value gay rights, health care reform, weakening the Tea Party, redefining American politics so that Republicans are compelled to be more inclusive, getting more minorities into government, as well the symbolism of his victory as important, you'd see him as a great president. In my opinion, he'll rank high in pantheon of presidents. Just like Kennedy and Reagan, Obama commands the love and admiration of millions of Americans, and not only that he is wonderful international symbol as well. My guess is he'll be in the top 10 to 15 easily.

Historical rankings of Presidents of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PatsFanInVa

Someone had to finish Kennedy's stolen years... I mean, look how the righties have downgraded him. Of course so much of the tragedy with John F Kennedy was that other than Cuba, he was pure potential, by and large. Not enough time. (And no slam on LBJ, one of those rare politicians who can see the times change, and -- except for Vietnam -- changed with them.)

Obama will be remembered as the first great president of the 21st century. If he's considered less than that, it will be a rosy future indeed

As to what the Founders got right and wrong, our first amendment has as its stated purpose the security of the state through the arming of a well regulated militia.

Article I, Section 8 of the constitution does not seem to provide for a standing army. Instead, you can cobble one together, but can't appropriate it for more than 2 years. The state militias, by contrast, seem to have been envisioned as standing units. Reading the second amendment without considering the place and purpose of militias in the 18th century is pretty darned myopic.

PFnV

I do know tht

PatriotFan77

You know what??

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PatsFanInVa

I do know that sometimes you try to get rid of leftover text, and miss some

PFnV

Real World

The media will try to portray Obama as a great president. History and fact will tell a far different story.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

scout

Nostradamus, that you?