If you can't beat them, force them to join you - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

Mrs.PatsFanInVa · 12-11-2012, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllegalContact

do they? where?

Here:

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Walmart has been accused of strategically firing active union members throughout the country in an effort to break confidence and discourage people from banding together. The worker organization OUR Walmart, which has been pushing back against the retail giant for over a year now, argues that certain employees were purposefully fired for active participation in union activities. The accusation comes after five employees were fired in recent months right after they spoke publicly about organizing activities.

Undoubtedly, Walmart is a company that famously avoids union organization at all costs. Blogger Karen Olsson points out that Wal-Mart is extremely efficient when it senses that any employees may be organizing. She states:

At the first sign of organizing in a store, Walmart dispatches a team of union busters from its headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas, sometimes setting up surveillance cameras to monitor workers.

Read more: Walmart Accused of Illegally Firing Union Players | Care2 Causes

Here:

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Walmart is facing accusations that the company is engaged in a bold and illegal campaign to stamp out union activity after firing five employees in recent months who were involved in a group organizing the company’s workers.

Although the company says that the terminations are unrelated to any employees’ organizing activity, OUR Walmart – which receives funding and support from the United Food and Commercial Workers Union – argues that the pattern points to an emerging strategy to break the organization’s command structure and intimidate workers.

Walmart Moves To Fire Union Activist Employees | Crooks and Liars

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Wal Mart has responded to the union drive by trying to stop workers from organizing -- sometimes in violation of federal labor law. In 10 separate cases, the National Labor Relations Board has ruled that Wal-Mart repeatedly broke the law by interrogating workers, confiscating union literature, and firing union supporters.

In February 2000, the meat-cutting department at a Wal-Mart in Jacksonville, Texas, voted to join the UFCW -- the only Wal-Mart in the nation where workers successfully organized a union. Two weeks after the vote, the company announced it was eliminating its meat-cutting departments in all of its stores nationwide. It also fired four workers who voted for the union. "They held a meeting and said there was nothing we could do," recalls Dotty Jones, a former meat cutter in Jacksonville. "No matter which way the election went, they would hold it up in court until we were old and gray."

Up Against Wal-Mart | Mother Jones

In Canada they closed the whole store when employees attempted to unionize.

Wal-Mart Crushes Union by Closing Store

RI Patriots fan · 12-11-2012, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

You never know sometimes it takes things like this to get people off their butts and movements begin...

This is also a lame duck measure..

The House is changing and the divide is much smaller, now it is 59-41 after the democrats picked up 5 seats in the most recent election..

Yes, that 59-51 margin (it's 51 not 41) is waaaaay different

It ain't happening...no chance.

RI Patriots fan · 12-11-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

Why do you want the Government to dictate contracts between worker organizations and employers?

You mean like the NLRB does now? Just ask Boeing....

Opinion: NLRB costing South Carolina jobs - Rep. Kevin McCarthy and Rep. Tim Scott - POLITICO.com

PatsFanInVa · 12-11-2012, 05:31 PM

Cool story, RI. The NLRB withdrew their complaint after the Machinists and Boeing came to a contract agreement.

NLRB Withdraws Boeing Complaint - WSJ.com

The grounds were that opening the SC plant was specifically a reprisal for previous strikes. Whether you think that would float in court or not is sort of immaterial, since it's a dead issue.

Got anything that's not overtaken by events?

Oh yeah and...

Why do you want the government to dictate the terms of contracts between workers and employers?

If the employer signs a contract that their shop will be a union shop, what business is it of the government's?

The Michigan law dictates the terms of employment. Employers and employees should do that. If employees vote for a union -- as they have in all union shops -- what business is it of the Michigan government, or any "right-to-work" (for peanuts) state government -- to interfere?

Why do you believe in the state more than employers and employees?

PFnV

PFnV

Real World · 12-11-2012, 07:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Real World

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why a company cannot walk away from a union, once the contract between the two sides has expired.

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Originally Posted by Real World

Bump

Beuhler? Anyone?

Bumped again....anyone?

Mrs.PatsFanInVa · 12-11-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real World

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why a company cannot walk away from a union, once the contract between the two sides has expired.

Bumped again....anyone?

Probably for the same reason the workers can't walk away from their job en-masse the day a contract expires...they both agreed not to.

What an employer can do - and often does do - is do a lock out and refuse to allow the union employees to work without a contract and only offer them a really bad one, knowing they won't accept it. He can't fire them, but he can hire non-union replacement workers to replace them for as long as he wants and hold out until the union accepts his terms.

RI Patriots fan · 12-11-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

Cool story, RI. The NLRB withdrew their complaint after the Machinists and Boeing came to a contract agreement.

NLRB Withdraws Boeing Complaint - WSJ.com

The grounds were that opening the SC plant was specifically a reprisal for previous strikes. Whether you think that would float in court or not is sort of immaterial, since it's a dead issue.

Got anything that's not overtaken by events?

Oh yeah and...

Why do you want the government to dictate the terms of contracts between workers and employers?

If the employer signs a contract that their shop will be a union shop, what business is it of the government's?

The Michigan law dictates the terms of employment. Employers and employees should do that. If employees vote for a union -- as they have in all union shops -- what business is it of the Michigan government, or any "right-to-work" (for peanuts) state government -- to interfere?

Why do you believe in the state more than employers and employees?

PFnV

PFnV

I was pointing out that the government is already involved in the employee/employer relationship especially when it comes to unions.

So if you're saying that government shouldn't involve itself in employer/employee relationships and employers can require employees to sign contracts to prohibit them from forming unions.....I'm in. No interference whatsoever.

***DarrylS*** · 12-12-2012, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RI Patriots fan

I was pointing out that the government is already involved in the employee/employer relationship especially when it comes to unions.

So if you're saying that government shouldn't involve itself in employer/employee relationships and employers can require employees to sign contracts to prohibit them from forming unions.....I'm in. No interference whatsoever.

The governor was in the middle of meetings with Unions as recently as last week, and gave no indication that this was even on the table or would support such a measure.. then it was rushed through without public comment or any democratic processes that involved the rank and file.

They attached this to an appropriations bill so it could not be subject to a Michigan Referendum.. it is dirty pool all around, and defies basic democratic processes.

The Koch's, Chamber of Commerce and the rest of the oligarchs are all quite proud of these actions..

This is why he did it in a nutshell... politics behind closed doors, what a jackass.. what goes around, comes around.

Quote:

Challenged by a reporter as to why he signed the right-to-work legislation behind closed doors, Snyder again faulted union organizers. “It’s one of those things, there were a number of people out protesting. So I don’t see the need to have a public ceremony to over-emphasize that.”

Hebeill · 12-12-2012, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

The governor was in the middle of meetings with Unions as recently as last week, and gave no indication that this was even on the table or would support such a measure.. then it was rushed through without public comment or any democratic processes that involved the rank and file.

They attached this to an appropriations bill so it could not be subject to a Michigan Referendum.. it is dirty pool all around, and defies basic democratic processes.

The Koch's, Chamber of Commerce and the rest of the oligarchs are all quite proud of these actions..

And theyand their supporters call the supporters of the constitution, 'real americans' while at the same time spit on the democratic process.

IllegalContact · 12-12-2012, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

Probably for the same reason the workers can't walk away from their job en-masse the day a contract expires...they both agreed not to.

What an employer can do - and often does do - is do a lock out and refuse to allow the union employees to work without a contract and only offer them a really bad one, knowing they won't accept it. He can't fire them, but he can hire non-union replacement workers to replace them for as long as he wants and hold out until the union accepts his terms.

this is only true in the case of certain public employees. when they take the job, they agree that they can't strike.......and in return, they get tenure (at least in the teachers case)

I would have no problems removing that wording from teachers contracts....would give schools the enema that they need