What should we as a society do? - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

PatriotsReign · 12-08-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

Who is "We"? You mean a gov't job?

Absolutely no way in hell.

I would never, ever support any bid to guarantee EVERYONE a job. But you want to give this guy one. What about the "normal" guy down the street with 2 kids who's been out of work for months? He deserves a job way before "Joe" does...or anyone like him.

Why don't you hire him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

My, my, my....whatever happened to "no one is any better than anyone else?" and "We're all the same, we're all just another bozo on the bus?"

Still applies....why not?

But I guess if one conveniently leaves out the most important part of my post (in bold), it's easy to get confused....as you did.

***DarrylS*** · 12-09-2012, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

I think Icy's right on the money with this.

I'd far rather see my tax dollars going towards identifying high-risk children and teenagers and developing programs which work towards preventing drug addiction, early pregnancy, alcoholism, gang affiliations and a high drop out rate than trying to clean up after the damage has been done.

You are talking about preventative services vs. curative services, as a society we allow certain segments to fall between the cracks as dealing with them is too expensive for municipalities...

If a school system id's a child with a learning disability, then all types of responses have to kick in due to federal mandates of PL 94-142 and the NCLB legislation.. so the LEA's are reluctant to id such a child, it is easier not to notice his/her educational deficits.. the end result is a person who becomes dependent on a variety of government systems..

Witnessed over the years lots of lip service, and changes in how we provide for these kids.. but the "grey area kids" are the most concerning as the LEA's do not want to provide special services as these services are not only long term, but very expensive.. hard to say a young child is responsible for not availing him or herself of a good education.

PatriotsReign · 12-09-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IcyPatriot

On thing I neglected to add is we need to have a greater effort in education in this country. Education and after school programs are the solution to many problems affecting this country today. You can either spend more on education or more on social welfare later ... the education spending is more fruitful for society. Even people like Joe can be identified earlier and trained in a trade rather than not being trained for anything.

Ok, but we can't force school systems to become day care centers too.

I think we know most of the problems, but we never seem to deal with the answers. Making school systems into day care centers does not address the real problem.....irresponsible parents.

If we don't deal with the real problem, then the problem will escalate and eventually our citizens look to government to solve all our problems. And that has never been nor will ever be the role of our gov't.

Why is it that values have deteriorated so much in our society?.....

Anyone?

***DarrylS*** · 12-09-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

Ok, but we can't force school systems to become day care centers too.

I think we know most of the problems, but we never seem to deal with the answers. Making school systems into day care centers does not address the real problem.....irresponsible parents.

If we don't deal with the real problem, then the problem will escalate and eventually our citizens look to government to solve all our problems. And that has never been nor will ever be the role of our gov't.

Why is it that values have deteriorated so much in our society?.....

Anyone?

Children of "irresponsible parents" should be cast by the wayside???

PatsFanInVa · 12-09-2012, 07:15 AM

I think we -- "Society" -- has self-interest in keeping Joe in contexts that do not interact with his known proclivities to produce additional harm to others in society. After all, more people have such proclivities, given the right context, than admit it -- mainly because they don't live in those contexts. Probably some of us here, especially given the violent ideation we see all the time, just talking politics on a bulletin board.

I think we -- "society" -- has self-interest in remaining a society of laws, and that includes not just increasing all penalties so we don't have to deal with "Joes" again. We tried that w/"3 strikes" laws. Result: a prison-industrial complex horrifically weighted against minorities. No real progress for guys like "Joe" here and our ability to re-assimilate him.

These two self-interests for society are not served by present solutions.

So I do not agree that society has no interest in the question, and I think the Conservative response to such questions is a cop-out.

PFnV

PatriotsReign · 12-09-2012, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrylS

Children of "irresponsible parents" should be cast by the wayside???

Should Americans look to our government to solve all their problems?

PatriotsReign · 12-09-2012, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

I think we -- "Society" -- has self-interest in keeping Joe in contexts that do not interact with his known proclivities to produce additional harm to others in society. After all, more people have such proclivities, given the right context, than admit it -- mainly because they don't live in those contexts. Probably some of us here, especially given the violent ideation we see all the time, just talking politics on a bulletin board.

I think we -- "society" -- has self-interest in remaining a society of laws, and that includes not just increasing all penalties so we don't have to deal with "Joes" again. We tried that w/"3 strikes" laws. Result: a prison-industrial complex horrifically weighted against minorities. No real progress for guys like "Joe" here and our ability to re-assimilate him.

These two self-interests for society are not served by present solutions.

So I do not agree that society has no interest in the question, and I think the Conservative response to such questions is a cop-out.

PFnV

I think we need to look at the issues that people like "Joe" create for society from a pragmatic perspective and not an emotional one. I also believe we should look at all our problems from this perspective.

Since we know we can't just keep increasing government spending moving forward, I think we need to look at the cost/benefit of every single dime we spend. If we have programs that result in little benefit, we need to consider cutting/ending that spending.

The reality is that we need to look at all these costs from the perspective of those paying for them, not from the perspective of those receiving them. So what is the return on our investments?

PatsFanInVa · 12-09-2012, 07:21 AM

No, nor should government solve all of anybody else's problems. Nobody suggested that government solve all of Joe's problems, or anybody else's. Why don't you try rephrasing in a realistic formulation?

***DarrylS*** · 12-09-2012, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

Should Americans look to our government to solve all their problems?

Children do not choose their "irresponsible parents"..

If you do not take care of children when they are young, they become completely dependent in the future...

More "collateral damage" from the Neo Cons.. only those who are the fittest will be allowed to surive and prosper.. then whine and bytch about the rest.

PatriotsReign · 12-09-2012, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

No, nor should government solve all of anybody else's problems. Nobody suggested that government solve all of Joe's problems, or anybody else's. Why don't you try rephrasing in a realistic formulation?

PFiVA....there are people here who look at every social issue/problem and ask themselves "why isn't our gov't doing something about this?"

I could go through a list beginning with school systems, homeless, people being foreclosed upon, children living in difficult homes....etc., etc.

Government is not the answer to all of the above.

And I'm not saying that you're one of these people.