Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals - New England Patriots Forums

Kid~Brady · 12-06-2012, 05:56 AM

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Barack Obama has proposed to add $1.6 trillion in taxes on wealthy Americans and cut $400bn in spending on Medicare and Medicaid as part of a new budget deal.

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Congressional Republicans have proposed to add $800bn in taxes and cut $1.4 trillion in spending as part of a new budget deal.

If you had to choose between the two plans for a budget deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff," which would you choose?

Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals

***DarrylS*** · 12-06-2012, 06:16 AM

Where is the "Peace Dividend" after the pull out from the Iraq Crusades???

Military madness has become a behemoth consuming something like 60% of the federal tax dollar, but that is never mentioned.. when it is, hysteria ensues(why does so and so hate the military?)...

The masters of war continue to do the happy dance, as there are no cuts in store for them..

PatsFanInVa · 12-06-2012, 06:18 AM

But you have to subtract out the responses of 47% of those people, remember... they don't count.

In all seriousness, the only things in these proposals are things people won't like.

It's either a vague threat of taxes going up or it's a vague threat that some program they do count on -- e.g., medicare/soc. security -- will be under attack.

Now, when you get to the actual deal, people can embrace it when the vague threats coalesce into specifics... especially compared with the known kick in the nads that is the fiscal cliff (if in fact people even have their heads around that yet.)

PFnV

Kid~Brady · 12-06-2012, 06:20 AM

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Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

But you have to subtract out the responses of 47% of those people, remember... they don't count.
In all seriousness, the only things in these proposals are things people won't like.

It's either a vague threat of taxes going up or it's a vague threat that some program they do count on -- e.g., medicare/soc. security -- will be under attack.

Now, when you get to the actual deal, people can embrace it when the vague threats coalesce into specifics... especially compared with the known kick in the nads that is the fiscal cliff (if in fact people even have their heads around that yet.)

PFnV

Lol, I knew that was coming.

PatriotsReign · 12-06-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

But you have to subtract out the responses of 47% of those people, remember... they don't count.

In all seriousness, the only things in these proposals are things people won't like.

It's either a vague threat of taxes going up or it's a vague threat that some program they do count on -- e.g., medicare/soc. security -- will be under attack.

Now, when you get to the actual deal, people can embrace it when the vague threats coalesce into specifics... especially compared with the known kick in the nads that is the fiscal cliff (if in fact people even have their heads around that yet.)

PFnV

Your last point +1

I highly doubt most Americans understand how bad things will get if we just go off the cliff. Most need things explained to them and most don't want to know much about it.

If we do go off the cliff, we WILL experience significant economic hardship and increased unemployment. And if that happens, unemployment benefits won't be for 99 weeks anymore!

***IcyPatriot*** · 12-06-2012, 07:10 AM

Actually we need the fiscal cliff more than we need an agreement.

Taxes will go up and the budget will be slashed more than any cliff agreement.

PatsFanInVa · 12-06-2012, 07:21 AM

Let's take two scenarios Icy:

Scenario 1: You destroy growth and plunge America in the double-dip recession. Everybody has less, can make less, and is taxed more. All services simultaneously are deeply slashed.

Scenario 2: Growth continues, and has the chance to pick up markedly once the cliff is "past."

Scenario 1 might get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile, but given its predictably effect on growth, it probably will have the opposite effect. However, the absolute number representing the debt will rise less quickly.

Scenarios 2 will get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile. The absolute number representing the debt will rise more quickly, but the debt-to-GDP ratio will decline. Growth will increase, relative to scenario 1.

Do you want your bumper sticker ("I reduced the debt and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker,") or do you want a better economy, and a better debt number that matters -- that is, debt relative to the economy (as opposed to in a vacuum)?

PR, it actually sounds like you are getting this at the moment. Explain to Icy will ya?

PFnV

IllegalContact · 12-06-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatsFanInVa

Let's take two scenarios Icy:

Scenario 1: You destroy growth and plunge America in the double-dip recession. Everybody has less, can make less, and is taxed more. All services simultaneously are deeply slashed.

Scenario 2: Growth continues, and has the chance to pick up markedly once the cliff is "past."

Scenario 1 might get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile, but given its predictably effect on growth, it probably will have the opposite effect. However, the absolute number representing the debt will rise less quickly.

Scenarios 2 will get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile. The absolute number representing the debt will rise more quickly, but the debt-to-GDP ratio will decline. Growth will increase, relative to scenario 1.

Do you want your bumper sticker ("I reduced the debt and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker,") or do you want a better economy, and a better debt number that matters -- that is, debt relative to the economy (as opposed to in a vacuum)?

PR, it actually sounds like you are getting this at the moment. Explain to Icy will ya?

PFnV

Gotta love reverse-engineering

Hebeill · 12-06-2012, 10:14 AM

Don't fret

... cliff diving will basically bring us back to where we were pre 9/11

PatriotsReign · 12-06-2012, 11:14 AM

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Originally Posted by IcyPatriot

Actually we need the fiscal cliff more than we need an agreement.

Taxes will go up and the budget will be slashed more than any cliff agreement.

Obama can't allow taxes to increase on those making less than $250k or he'll lose credibility.

On top of that, most of us in that group can't afford another few grand a year in taxes. Heck, I know I can't....nor am I willing.

Not that last part matters any.

The best way for us to reduce our deficit is to increase taxes upon those who can afford it and hope our economy can get back to "normal" historical growth. The more people that have jobs, the more tax revenue our gov't gets.

Increase my taxes and I guarantee I'll spend significantly less next year. And that means no new windows and other stuff I hope to have done. I was also going to buy a new car next year, but would re-consider if my taxes are raised substantially.

That's kinda the way EVERYONE does things.