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Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
What happens if the payroll tax cut expires
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As Republicans and Democrats search for a plan to avert a fiscal cliff, it's looking more likely that the payroll tax holiday introduced under President Obama in 2010 won't be extended. Should this benefit expire, 125 million households would see their paychecks shrink, the Tax Policy Center estimates.
That's a far bigger slice of the population than the group of Americans who would be affected by proposed income tax hikes. If taxes are raised on incomes exceeding $250,000, roughly 2.8 million households would be impacted. Meanwhile, a mere 368,000 Americans would feel a tax hit if rates rise on incomes above $1 million.
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Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
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Originally Posted by JackBauer
The point is that tax rates are not that high considering the array of services the government provides -- services that people want, and will fight tooth and nail for, by the way.
It's been said that Americans want a social welfare state but don't want to pay for it. Given that fact, it's clear that an optimal solution should feature spending cuts and tax increases. Unfortunately each side has their sacred cows and it's difficult, thus, to get anyone who will negotiate in good faith. Particularly the House GOP.
The array of services? Like what Jack? Sex changes for inmates, $18 muffins for the DOD, millions and billions and trillions for spinach farmers, bridges to no where, stimulus bills, bases abroad, EBT cards for 45+ million.... Please.
Sure, deadbeats and freeloaders want a welfare state. As do most moonbats. The problem is, they expect everyone else to pay for it. We're broke pal, as is the rest of the western world. Why? Cuz welfare states don't work financially. There simply isn't enough of everyone else's money to go around.
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Originally Posted by JackBauer
I'm talking comparative. Look at what we take in for taxes versus our government spending relative to other industrialized nations.
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Originally Posted by The Brandon Five
That is only Federal revenue and spending. How do we compare if you include state and local revenues and outlays?
Where do you want us to look?
Exactly. Add up ALL of the taxes a the average working class sucker pays. Not just his payroll taxes & income taxes. Add in the sales taxes, state income taxes, property or real estate taxes, excise taxes, take a dump taxes, etc. then add in all the fees too. Water bills, trash bills, registration fees, tolls, permits, licenses, etc. Only in the bizarro world Jack lives in, do people not pay enough in taxes, and is the welfare state fiscally sustainable. Which obviously goes against the reality the entire western civilization, and world, are currently facing.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
I am beginning to believe both parties WANT us to go over the cliff.
Why?
Because BOTH parties want spending to remain where it is. They both depend upon spending to get re-elected. After all, how can they get much pork fot their voters if we cut spending?
"If" we go over the cliff....my bet is that our gov't will allow it to remain just to see what affect it has. If it's not too bad, my bet is we'll ALL end up paying significantly higher taxes.
And "If" all the above happens, it will be the greatest act against the American people in the history of our gov't.
Last edited by PatriotsReign; 12-23-2012 at 07:23 AM..
Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
Actually, the 'cliff' is brought to us by the media. The cuts or increases can be implemented in phases if an agreement is ever reached. I am curious as to the ramifications of going past all the deadlines. Read yesterday that milk would shoot to $7.00 per gallon. Thus, all dairy would take a dramatic hike, consumers would adapt and some industries would be in deep trouble (school lunch).
The most interesting aspect for me is the cut in the defense program. Cuts into this program does not happen in any other scenario. It would cause any waste to be immediately cut. No lobbying, no favors, no chips. It would also be interesting to see where we rank among other countries after this cut (First?).
Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
Your payroll checks would be smaller as everyone would be taxed at the higher rates. Personally I've maintained that we will "go over" for whatever that means, and then kick the can non-effective deal will be agreed to. The kick the can do nothing deal will be poo-poo'd by the media as some historical miracle deal that solves all our problems (I'm exagerating a little, but you get my drift) in the hopes that the public feels confident and spends. Then, a couple of year down the road, when we're even more broke, we'll be back to square one, if not bankrupt.
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
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Originally Posted by scout
Actually, the 'cliff' is brought to us by the media. The cuts or increases can be implemented in phases if an agreement is ever reached.
Well, sort of. The cliff was brought to us by Congress, which called it sequestration. It was designed to be completely indefensible to your voters, supposedly forcing Congress to get it together and act. In the media I've been reading and seeing for months that "it's more like a fiscal slope" or "it's more like a fiscal curb." Whatev. As you say, it won't all hit on midnight the 31st, but it could beat the crap out of us if we don't do a stopgap for no perceivable gain. Besides the short-term market fluctuations, there's the possibility of another downgrade, and there's the certainty of more erosion to the perception of the U.S. as capable of governing itself and therefore lending stability to markets.
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I am curious as to the ramifications of going past all the deadlines. Read yesterday that milk would shoot to $7.00 per gallon. Thus, all dairy would take a dramatic hike, consumers would adapt and some industries would be in deep trouble (school lunch).
What's funny is that mechanism for the possible price doubling is that in the absence of cutting another farm bill, we'd revert to a 1949 law requiring the gubmit to buy the milk at ridiculous prices. Because all this stuff is tied up together, instead of just passing a farm bill, we're ready to revert to the 1949 law, including indexing for inflation from that time, etc. But of course, our whole problem, supposedly, is that the government has no money to buy anything, much less a bunch of milk.
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The most interesting aspect for me is the cut in the defense program. Cuts into this program does not happen in any other scenario. It would cause any waste to be immediately cut. No lobbying, no favors, no chips. It would also be interesting to see where we rank among other countries after this cut (First?).
Afraid so, old bean, and it wouldn't even be close. We presently outspend the next 13 or so countries combined in terms of defense. We outstrip #2 China by a half trillion a year -- I think these figures include forms of military spending not in the official pentagon budget, which is in the neighborhood of 550 billion as of 2012.
Sequestration would carve 9.4% off the annual budget, taking us to $491 billion in 2013 -- still more than double the Chinese figure, all in -- counting (on our side) the Pentagon's official budget alone.
Last edited by PatsFanInVa; 12-26-2012 at 09:48 PM..
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Re: Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
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