JackBauer

The nominal figures are meaningless. If you look at either government spending or tax revenues as a percentage of GDP, you'll understand that it's not, as you persistently but unconvincingly argue, simply a spending problem.

DarrylS

So ignoring the military, while sacrificing seniors is a good thing..

Defense cuts will never happen, we have become the military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about.. there divide between the pentagon and defense industry has all but melted away..

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"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

Real World

Real dollars are what matter Jack. Not some artificially inflated figure that is fueled by an ever growing fiat currency, and game of monopoly monetary policy. Real people, and real businesses, like the ones I run, don't operate according to GDP. We operate according to actual dollars. By all means if you want to ignore reality, feel free to do so. Just don't pee on my leg and try to tell me it's raining. We're flat broke. Period.

Jack, look at the Clinton years. Higher tax rates, $20 oil, a smaller defense budget, lowered interest rates, and a booming bubble economy. The best we could do was come close to breaking even, and that was with sub $2 trillion in spending. That was without the Baby Boomers, which is the largest segment of the population if I'm not mistaken, beginning to slice into the entitlement pie.

Reading comprehension buddy. Slow down, and go read what I wrote. Defense has to be cut.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

The Brandon Five

Ok, let's look at the GDP percentages. Revenues hit a zenith of 20.6% of GDP in 2001. Outlays the last three years were 25.0%, 23.8% and 25.3% (through 2011).

Since 1990 outlays have equaled or exceeded that high water mark of revenues 10 times.

Source: U.S. Statistical Abstract

http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/12s0469.pdf

Real World

Keep in mind too that those figures include excess SS & government pension funds as receipts. Borrowed dollars that will have to be paid back, with interest.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

JackBauer

The point is that tax rates are not that high considering the array of services the government provides -- services that people want, and will fight tooth and nail for, by the way.

It's been said that Americans want a social welfare state but don't want to pay for it. Given that fact, it's clear that an optimal solution should feature spending cuts and tax increases. Unfortunately each side has their sacred cows and it's difficult, thus, to get anyone who will negotiate in good faith. Particularly the House GOP.

JackBauer

I'm talking comparative. Look at what we take in for taxes versus our government spending relative to other industrialized nations.

IcyPatriot

Regarding the earlier debate on the wars, who was responsible and the spending. the fact is that both the democrats and republicans had blood on their hands to the tune of almost $40 billion dollars of pork. Bush looked the other way as pork was used to get the bills approved.

IMO the deception to get to war was horrendous ...
but the approval of the money to keep them going was almost as bad.

http://www.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/...30_opchart.pdf

alvinnf

I think the main problem with cutting defense is "soylent green", its people.
Just like the elderly, defense cuts represent, people. Now there might be savings to be had in trim back, but unfortunately our defense spending has been bloated and it employs too many. Why do you think no one has broached this yet. It's difficult.

The Brandon Five

That is only Federal revenue and spending. How do we compare if you include state and local revenues and outlays?

Where do you want us to look?