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I suppose Icy what I think is that the investigation is political b.s. There is no serious effort at accomplishing anything constructive. The reality, I'm guessing, is that the Obama administration did not want to reveal the Benghazi situation because it would then get caught up in political gamesmanship where the right-wing would be calling for military action, complicating the political work the administration is doing in the ME and strengthening the hands of extremists who want to sow fear of the US in the people of the ME. That said, it's also possible the info wasn't released right away for intelligence reasons.
The second part is worth investigating, I suppose, to see if a better process can be put in place when making decisions about security at embassies. My guess is that nothing will change on that front. After all, as a rule, it's safer to be an embassy employee in the ME than a young black man in Dorchester. We can only do so much. Now if it comes out that we knew about the Al Qaeda attack much earlier and simply chose to leave the embassy staff as sitting ducks, we have a more serious problem.
A serious problem Patters is our involvement in other countries while side stepping Congress. The executive order plague ... increased by Clinton ... trampled by Bush and brought to new heights by Obama is seriously frightening.
As long as citizens remain partisan to their people it will get worse. See it in this forum daily. Politicians are exploiting the us vs them mentality and we are paying the price. This entire Libya debacle needs investigating. We were loosely working with elements of Al-Qaeda ... not good. We'll see as time goes by ... I am confident that my opinion on this matter is valid. The Obama administration has some explaining to do ... the response to the attack is just the tip. That Obama himself may have been exploited is even more frightening.
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Which of those bombings were the people begging for reinforcements beforehand, only to be denied by the president? And which of those bombings did Bush declare was all the fault of an American filmmaker and not, ya know, actually any sort of organized terrorism?
Because unless you answers those questions - and we know you won't - then your analogies are epic fail.
Thats a lie per usual they never asked for anything before hand. Fran Townsend former Homeland Security Advisor to Bush said repeatedly after the attack that she had just spent time with the ambassador and was astounded at the lack of any security, or the concern of not having much.
Thats a lie per usual they never asked for anything before hand. Fran Townsend former Homeland Security Advisor to Bush said repeatedly after the attack that she had just spent time with the ambassador and was astounded at the lack of any security, or the concern of not having much.
So, in light of the inadequate security that allowed that attack to work do you think the Bush administration fell short of their security responsibilities?
Every time this subject comes up the outcome is predictable, the right says that the Embassy "pleaded and begged for security", however have not shown documentation of such..
Then they follow with Obama lied, but do not follow with documentation there either...
The blogs feed this frenzy, even the major news outlets are letting this fade to page #2 as there is no smoke and certainly no fire..
The right is hoping for impeachment or other such nonsense, and there are no grounds for such... congress is polling lower than whale shyt, do you really think they want to embarass themselves more????..
All they are doing is making a convincing case for term limits and perhaps a mandatory retirement age...
__________________ "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.
A serious problem Patters is our involvement in other countries while side stepping Congress. The executive order plague ... increased by Clinton ... trampled by Bush and brought to new heights by Obama is seriously frightening.
As long as citizens remain partisan to their people it will get worse. See it in this forum daily. Politicians are exploiting the us vs them mentality and we are paying the price. This entire Libya debacle needs investigating. We were loosely working with elements of Al-Qaeda ... not good. We'll see as time goes by ... I am confident that my opinion on this matter is valid. The Obama administration has some explaining to do ... the response to the attack is just the tip. That Obama himself may have been exploited is even more frightening.
Your wild accusations calling Libya a debacle and claiming that we are working with Al Qaeda are the sort of nonsense I expect form the Orly Taitz's and Jerome Corsi's of the world. But, don't worry, the Tea Party agrees with you and they're investigating. So far they haven't turned up anything though, but hang in there. Next, they get their hands on Hillary, who agreed to testify. Let's hope they crucify her for her failures on the matter
As far as your perception of us as partisan and being exploited, I doubt many of us would agree with that kind of arrogance. I'm a liberal; therefore, I will support the most liberal position that is available. Also, as a liberal, I'm not libertarian. I did for a long time support American involvement in Afghanistan because I felt Al Qaeda and the Taliban are a terrible human rights problem as well as a threat to us. I support foreign aid; I supported Obama's position on the Arab Spring, and there are probably other military actions I've supported as well. If our allies are attacked, I'd support some American action. That said, there are many Democratic military actions I opposed -- nuking Japan, Vietnam, and pretty much the conflict in the Balkans (though that one's more complicated).
As far as Presidents and war, Presidents have ignored Congress since Truman decided to enter the Korean conflict, and Congress has gone along with that. I think there needs to be greater clarity on this issue, but it is a complicated one given that events unfold much more quickly now than they have in the past, thanks to modern weaponry and technology.
Every time this subject comes up the outcome is predictable, the right says that the Embassy "pleaded and begged for security", however have not shown documentation of such..
Then they follow with Obama lied, but do not follow with documentation there either...
The blogs feed this frenzy, even the major news outlets are letting this fade to page #2 as there is no smoke and certainly no fire..
The right is hoping for impeachment or other such nonsense, and there are no grounds for such... congress is polling lower than whale shyt, do you really think they want to embarass themselves more????..
All they are doing is making a convincing case for term limits and perhaps a mandatory retirement age...
There was a big lie and it served to insulate Obama from looking like his team was asleep at the switch. I'm not sure about begging for security or not but I'm not satisfied with the claim that it was just one of those things...that we were prepared as could be expected. If Obama was not privy to the classified info, then thats a problem. If he was then thats a problem. I do not understand the why a wholesale benefit of a doubt has been so automatically awarded. You have seen the inconsistencies and have admitted being confused about them. A lot of the excuses do not make sense. Under attack for so many hours and the only help requested was an unmanned drone???? There's a big hole in all of this. I don't subscribe to wild claims of treason etc. from the right but Im not about to dismiss this like there's nothing to see. There may be valid explanations for whats happened but so far I've seen nothing but spin to cover peoples butts.
Last edited by PatsWSB47; 11-17-2012 at 09:05 PM..
As far as your perception of us as partisan and being exploited, I doubt many of us would agree with that kind of arrogance. I'm a liberal; therefore, I will support the most liberal position that is available. Also, as a liberal, I'm not libertarian. I did for a long time support American involvement in Afghanistan because I felt Al Qaeda and the Taliban are a terrible human rights problem as well as a threat to us. I support foreign aid
why do you make things up that aren't there?
did I say liberals?
No ... i said ...
"As long as citizens remain partisan to their people it will get worse".
That statement has never been more true and this election proved it.
Yes ... politicians are exploiting partisan politics and if you don't see it then may I suggest you add to your arsenal of sites. I happen to visit most of the mainstream sites left and right ... collectively it gives a better feel for the news. doesn't make me anymore right than the next guy but it does allow me to see more sides to the issues and every issue has multiple sides.
who the heck said you were a libertarian?
Am I typing in code that even i do not understand?
Your wild accusations calling Libya a debacle and claiming that we are working with Al Qaeda are the sort of nonsense I expect form the Orly Taitz's and Jerome Corsi's of the world. But, don't worry, the Tea Party agrees with you and they're investigating. So far they haven't turned up anything though, but hang in there. Next, they get their hands on Hillary, who agreed to testify. Let's hope they crucify her for her failures on the matter
This guy Wissam Bin Hamid was helping to provide security for American diplomats.
He helped lead the diplomats out of the consulate to the secret location that was mortared.
He is the man mentioned in the last cable Christopher Stevens sent.
Quote:
In the document, Stevens also cited a meeting he had held two days earlier with local militia commanders. These men boasted to Stevens of exercising “control” over the Libyan Armed Forces, and threatened that if the U.S.-backed candidate for prime minister were to prevail in Libya’s internal political jockeying, “they would not continue to guarantee security in Benghazi.”
Proof that we were guaranteed security in Benghazi by an Al-Qaeda operative.
you won't find that at dem underground or daily kos or TPM.
Here he is .... the back drop in the Al-Qaeda flag.
You really need to vary your foreign news resources.
No ... i said ...
"As long as citizens remain partisan to their people it will get worse".
That statement has never been more true and this election proved it.
Yes ... politicians are exploiting partisan politics and if you don't see it then may I suggest you add to your arsenal of sites. I happen to visit most of the mainstream sites left and right ... collectively it gives a better feel for the news. doesn't make me anymore right than the next guy but it does allow me to see more sides to the issues and every issue has multiple sides.
who the heck said you were a libertarian?
Am I typing in code that even i do not understand?
Icy, this is what you said, "As long as citizens remain partisan to their people it will get worse. See it in this forum daily. Politicians are exploiting the us vs them mentality and we are paying the price." To me that suggested you think there are partisans in this forum being exploited by politicians. I actually think all of us are part of a more informed set. We make our choices based on more than partisanship. I think there are relatively few blind partisans in the electorate. Look at how many Republican governors we've had in MA, for instance.
As far the liberal/libertarian comment, I was responding to your reminder that you were an early opponent of the Afghanistan war. I was not. I think now we should get out, though. I have basically agreed with Obama's policy there, but I would be out of there already. We sowed the seeds of democracy and human rights in that country. I think now we have to leave and let it blossom, which may take many years.
This guy Wissam Bin Hamid was helping to provide security for American diplomats.
He helped lead the diplomats out of the consulate to the secret location that was mortared.
He is the man mentioned in the last cable Christopher Stevens sent.
Proof that we were guaranteed security in Benghazi by an Al-Qaeda operative.
you won't find that at dem underground or daily kos or TPM.
Here he is .... the back drop in the Al-Qaeda flag.
You really need to vary your foreign news resources.
Your source is Fox (is that why you didn't source it?) and is linked to every right wing blog around. You really need to vary your foreign news resources. Fox as you know is a right-wing news source that leaves out a lot of info. From what I can find online, diplomats met with Wissam once on September 9, and it appears that diplomats met with various unsavory groups in Libya as part of an effort to figure out who were anti-Qadaffi terrorists in an unholy alliance with anti-American terrorists, given that all terrorists had an anti-Quadaffi alliance. Wissam made it clear in his meeting that he would be a problem for the US if the US backed Libyan candidate won. Libya is far from being stable, and we are far from forming sensible stable alliances in that climate. What do you think we should do? Who do you think we should meet with when the choices are various radical factions that opposed Qadaffi? It does not appear we have relationships with any Al Qaeda groups, but the reality is they helped win Tripoli so it's a complicated problem. Maybe we should only meet with the nice Libyans?
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Re: Where was the outrage and investigations?
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