Real World

I'm curious where my fellow M*******s fall on this ballot question. I'm not sure I quite understand the what this bill would do, aims to do, would result in, or achieve. It sounds straight forward, but when it's explained, it's not as clear.

there's some explanation and a summary at the link below. I'll post the full question. Thoughts?


Elections: 2012 Information For Voters



Full Text of Question 1

Be it enacted by the People, and by their authority, as follows:

SECTION 1. The General Laws of Massachusetts shall be amended by inserting after chapter 93I the following new chapter 93J:—

CHAPTER 93J

MASSACHUSETTS RIGHT TO REPAIR ACT

Section 1. As used in this chapter, the following words shall, unless the context clearly indicates a different meaning, have the following meanings:

“Authorized repair facility”, a person or business operating in the commonwealth that is affiliated, by contract or otherwise, with an authorized dealer or motor vehicle manufacturer and is engaged in the diagnosis, service, maintenance or repair of motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines.

“Dealer”, a person or business authorized by a manufacturer to lease or sell the manufacturer’s new motor vehicles at retail; provided, however, that the dealer is also engaged in the diagnosis, service, maintenance or repair of motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines.

“Immobilizer system”, an electronic device equipped on a vehicle for the sole purpose of preventing the theft of that vehicle by preventing a vehicle from being started unless the correct key code is present.

“Independent repair facility”, a person or business operating in the commonwealth engaged in the diagnosis, service, maintenance or repair of motor vehicles or motor vehicle engines and that is not affiliated with a manufacturer or a dealer.

“Manufacturer”, any person or business engaged in the business of manufacturing or assembling new motor vehicles.
“Owner”, a person or business who owns, leases or otherwise has the legal right to use and possess a motor vehicle or the agent of that person.

“Trade secret”, anything tangible or intangible or electronically kept or stored, which constitutes, represents, evidences or records a secret scientific, technical, merchandising, production or management information, design, process, procedure, formula, invention or improvement.

Section 2. Commencing with new motor vehicle model year 2015 and thereafter, no manufacturer of a motor vehicle may sell or lease or offer for sale or lease, directly or through a dealer, a new motor vehicle without affording to the owner access to the same diagnostic and repair information relative to said new motor vehicle that the manufacturer makes available to its dealers and authorized repair facilities.

The manufacturer shall maintain a diagnostic and repair information system which shall enable the owner of the motor vehicle or the owner’s designated independent repair facility, the capability to utilize such system via the worldwide web or other electronically available manufacturer repair information system on a hourly, daily, monthly or yearly subscription basis at cost and terms that are no greater than fair market value and nondiscriminatory as compared with the terms and costs charged to dealers or authorized repair facilities.

Manufacturers shall provide access to their diagnostic and repair information system through a non-proprietary vehicle interface that complies with SAE J2534 as required by the United States Environmental Protection Agency in 40 CFR § 86.1808-01(f). The manufacturer’s diagnostic and repair information system shall provide the same diagnostic and repair information, including technical updates, which the manufacturer makes available to its dealers and authorized motor vehicle repair facilities. The content of said diagnostic and repair information system shall be in the same form and shall be accessed in the same manner as is available to dealers and authorized motor vehicle repair facilities utilizing said information system. Manufacturers shall exclude diagnostic, service and repair information necessary to reset a vehicle immobilizer system.

Information necessary to reset a vehicle immobilizer system shall be obtained by dealers, authorized motor vehicle repair facilities, motor vehicle owners and independent motor vehicle repair facilities through the secure data release model system as currently used by the National Automotive Service Task Force or other known, reliable and accepted law enforcement Internet-based systems.

Section 3. For vehicles manufactured from 2002 through the model year 2014, a manufacturer of motor vehicles sold in the commonwealth shall make available for purchase by owners of motor vehicles manufactured by the manufacturer and by independent repair facilities the same diagnostic and repair information, including repair technical updates, that the manufacturer makes available to its dealers and authorized repair facilities through the manufacturer’s world wide web diagnostic and repair information system or other electronically available manufacturers repair information system.

All content of said repair information system shall be made available to owners and to independent repair facilities in the same form and manner and to the same extent as is made available to dealers and authorized repair facilities utilizing said repair information system.

Manufacturers shall exclude diagnostic, service and repair information necessary to reset a vehicle immobilizer system. Information necessary to reset a vehicle immobilizer system shall be obtained by dealers, authorized repair facilities, owners, and independent repair facilities through the secure data release model system as currently used by the National Automotive Service Task Force or other known, reliable and accepted law enforcement Internet-based systems.

Access to the manufacturer’s diagnostic and repair information system shall be available for purchase by owners and independent repair facilities on an hourly, daily, monthly or yearly subscription basis and at cost and terms that are no greater than fair market value and nondiscriminatory as compared with the terms and costs charged to dealers or authorized repair facilities.

Each manufacturer shall make available for purchase by owners and independent repair facilities all diagnostic repair tools incorporating the same diagnostic, repair and wireless capabilities that the manufacturer makes available to its dealers and authorized motor vehicle repair facilities. These tools shall incorporate the same functional repair capabilities that the manufacturer makes available to dealers and authorized repair facilities. The cost and other terms of any sale of such tools to owners and to independent repair facilities shall be no greater than fair market value and nondiscriminatory as compared to the terms and costs charged to dealers or authorized repair facilities.

Section 4. Nothing in this chapter shall require a motor vehicle manufacturer to divulge a trade secret.

Section 5. Nothing in this chapter shall be interpreted or construed to abrogate, interfere with, contradict or alter the terms of any agreement made by a manufacturer, dealer, or authorized repair facility executed and in force as of the effective date of this chapter. On and after January 1, 2013, no person shall make or enter an agreement that purports to waive, avoid, restrict or limit a manufacturer’s compliance with this chapter and any such agreement shall be void and unenforceable.

Section 6. Any violation of this chapter shall be deemed to be an unfair method of competition and an unfair or deceptive act or practice in the conduct of trade or commerce in violation of section 2 of chapter 93A. In the event of a dispute concerning the determination of fair market value under this chapter, the parties may agree to binding arbitration under the rules of the American Arbitration Association or, absent such agreement, either party may initiate an action in the superior court for relief under chapter 231A.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

IllegalContact

I have no use for this one.....no

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“ I think good coaches will coach with the personnel they have, and if you only have one (good) linebacker, you’re not going to play a 3–4. ”
—Hank Bullough, who installed one of the first 3–4 defenses with the New England Patriots.

PatriotsReign

Voting "Yes" would allow auto manufacturers NOT to have share repair information with independent dealers. Mainly, it's the computer codes necessary to re-set an automobile's control system.

It would force owner to go to dealers or their affiliates for certain repairs.

Personally, I'd NEVER go to a dealer for repairs as they typically charge 25-50% more per hour than independent dealers.

Voting "Yes" would put a lot of independent repair shops out of business.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone in their right mind would support this bill. I'm not even sure how they got enough signatures to get it on the ballot.

The Brandon Five

I'm torn on this one. Intellectual property concerns on the one hand, a desire to even the playing field between huge corporations and small local businesses on the other...

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The Brandon Five

I think it's the other way around.

Massachusetts Right to Repair | The official coalition site
Massachusetts Right to Repair Committee Urges Supporters to Vote YES on Question 1 | Massachusetts Right to Repair

PatriotsReign

Of COURSE I knew that! Thanks for correcting me! Too much coffee today...

No offense, but I think the intellectual property issue is FAR outweighed by the rights of citizens to have a choice.

Monopoly comes to mind.....along with out of control repair costs.

IllegalContact

what this will only succeed in doing is consolidate the auto repair industry, and you will have these jiffy lube type shops hiring hacks who will kill your car the same way jiffy lube does. all while putting the local garage under alot of pressure and charging the same price as the dealers.

not sure about you guys, but my experiences with dealer shops including dalzell volvo, boch honda, boch toyota, mazda gallery, and infiniti of norwood have all been very positive.

what is this thing really talking about? most brands are under warranty for 3 years / 36K bumper to bumper and 5 years/ 60K or even 10 years / 100K for anything major. the high end brands include all maintenance for 4 years and 50K. once my car is out of warranty, I have no porblems taking to the corner shop and they have never had a problem meeting my needs.

would you ever take you car to one of these hacks if it was underwarranty? boch/mazda/toyota all charge less for an oil change than jiffy lube, and all even wash your car

this piece of legislation is simply going to make our costs go up and we're really not sure of what we will have further down the road. additional state involvement will only cause them to raise certain fees in order to justify the existence of this crap.

things are fine the way they are

__________________
“ I think good coaches will coach with the personnel they have, and if you only have one (good) linebacker, you’re not going to play a 3–4. ”
—Hank Bullough, who installed one of the first 3–4 defenses with the New England Patriots.

Real World

Let me just say first and foremost that I hate the "right to repair" supporters ad scheme. I despise their dumb down ad campaign. The "yahhhh, I wanna take my cah down'ta Sully's and get thah cahbahratah fixed" " Help Sully's fixah a cah shop!!!!!!" I hate that crap.



That being said, I think what this bill is referring to with respect to the codes, is related to stuff like when the "check engine" light comes on in your car. I've had that happen a couple of times (it's lit up on my 2004 Jeep right now), and while I traded in my other car, and am doing the same with this (never got it checked), when it happened to my dad's truck they told him he had to go to the dealer for that, cuz they (Sully's cah shop!!!!!!!) couldn't do the diagnostic or what have you. So my guess is that a part of the "codes" deal is for issues like that. My dealer requires a $100 diagnostic check when you bring your car in for service. If it needs work, they waive the $100 fee. Still, with my check engine light on, I have no interest in paying $100 to be told that they needed to reset it, or something stupid. I think sometimes those lights come on when you hit a certain mileage, so that you're forced to go into the dealer where they can sell you new belts and a tune up. I know, conspiracy'esque. Doesn't mean it can't be true!

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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897