Patters

I picture the more enlightened young person saying to her father or grandfather, "Look, the US has freedom of the press. That's what we want here. And the president did apologize for the bad behavior of those Americans who insulted Allah."

My niece (who is Jewish), who is in Tunisia, once visited her Muslim boyfriend's family in rural Algeria. She described her boyfriend's family as being highly religious, and said she spent a lot of time with her boyfriend's sisters (who wore hajib's of course), who laughed and gossiped about the men, and gave my niece advice about how to deal with the family.

I think conservatives have a picture that the daily lives of conservative Muslims is slaughtering infidels and plotting the destruction of America. Conservatives seem to live in a constant state of fear; they are generally quite fearful of cities, blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, etc.. The reality is that for the overwhelming majority of Muslims, even conservative ones, their daily lives involve going to work, taking care of the family, and playing with the kids. You can reach them in the same way that those Libyans who threw out the radicals in Benghazi even reached some conservatives on this board. An apology isn't going to change a terrorist, but it isn't going to win the terrorist any additional friends or sympathizers.

Nikolai

Having actually interacted with Muslims of varying stripes in the Middle East, I know for certain that this type of thinking, while not completely absent, is rather atypical. Even then, someone who might utter something like this is more likely to say this anonymously online than to a friend or family member in the real world.

The unemployment situation in many Middle Eastern and South Asian countries notwithstanding, this is pretty true. Politics is generally a tertiary concern for most until/unless something from the world of power politics hits home (sometimes literally).

Terror recruitment is a complicated topic and often invokes motives other than anger or politics. Recruiters are master bull****ters, and an apology can certainly be twisted to play the anger/politics angle, as could a lack of an apology. The fact that this happened at the hands of Americans only reinforces the now decades-old mantra that the US represents the largest threat to orthodox Islam. Apology or not, it won't matter to someone who is predisposed to support radical, violent Islamism. In other words, an apology is rather moot in this matter.

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We get what we deserve.

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“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

Patters

I don't think the psychopath will listen to an apology, but it can weaken his support system, which will affect his ability to recruit and could force him to consider his priorities. Again, even in this forum, some of those who are most anti-Muslim were forced to acknowledge that the Libyans rose up against the fundamentalist and pushed them out of Benghazi. That, in a way, is an example of an apology that forces even those who stereotype Muslims to begin the process of questioning their beliefs. So, at least for moment, there is more sympathy for the Libyans even among those Americans who more often than many support violence against the Muslim world.

PatsWSB47

I agree with much of that.. The average conservative Muslim isn't waking up every day plotting the destruction of America. By the same token, the average American conservative doesn't wake up fearing "cities, blacks, Muslims, etc". We too are busy doing the family and the work thing. If we can't generalize the conservative Muslim then please don't generalize the conservative American. As you have witnessed, some conservative Americans were moved by the Libyans that rejected the radicals. I hope mainstream Libyans would also be moved by our support. That's not automatic though as I expect some skepticism. I guess I'm just trying to emphasize that radicals on both extremes are many degrees separated from mainstream conservatives and liberals. I agree with you that an an apology has no effect on radicals. They will try and spin an apology or no apology for that matter into proof that their cause is just. Hopefully they don't get many to cross over. I don't know how long it will take but I think it's going in the right direction.

Nikolai

I'm not at all convinced that an apology has that much influence on anything among terrorists or even their support system.

I think you're attributing far too much power to an apology. Even the most sensitive among us are starting to realize that apologies have limited impact. It is action that drives the real message, not a handful of words.

__________________
We get what we deserve.

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“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

chicowalker

An apology may not accomplish much, and as I believe you stated may even be used against us. I think you also stated that not apologizing may be used against us.

If that's the case, how about simply apologizing when and only when we think it's appropriate without worrying what others might do with it?

Nikolai

That's the ticket as far as I'm concerned.

__________________
We get what we deserve.

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“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

Hebeill

At this point Everyone knows that the US government didn't put the movie out or approve of it, that it was a coptic christian bent on stirring up trouble. So theres really no excuse for any riots to continue but they are, it seems obvious (at least to me) that while this may have originally been about the movie its being used by radicals to foment trouble and an apology isn't going to do much if anything.

Titus Pullo

No. Not really. ...

It's funny.... some people ask why I so often see those on the other side of the political fence as "petulant children"... Where's the confusion?

In fact the worst president in U.S. history's version was even more embarrassing, especially considering it was during a time when far more U.S. personnel were dying on a daily basis.

DarrylS

Your effort to try to answer a question, is poor as you put on your extremism suit in the end....

It does matter who produced it, it always does. You are one of the ones who want to take out Westboro Baptist Church because of their protests outside of funerals of veterans, supported the effort of the right to quelch the Dixie Chicks because of 7 words... but now you are a champion of free speech??

As much as you do not want to believe that this caused violence, and somehow know all the answers while the bodies are still warm.. it was a match to a tinderbox, a tinderbox that wants to be violent and by doing so served that purpose..

Do not understand how any can minimize a person who deliberately incited violence that caused the death of americans, a person who initially posed as a jew in an effort to spark more violence towards Jews and a person who put fellow coptic christians in the crosshairs...

Free speech, but there is always that responsibility thing.. see the rules of this message board.

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