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Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
No, there is only ONE issue in this thread and that's the accuracely of the manner in which our unemployment is reported.
This isn't a discussion about the history of how unemployment is reported, why unemployment is so damned high or who's fault it is.
Do you understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patters
I think there are several issues going on here. The Republican governors were zealous at cutting the state employment rolls, pushing 700,000 more people into unemployment. Even with unemployment insurance and benefits, that probably translates to loss to the economy of roughly $15 billion, which probably put a lot of other people out of work. In other words, the deficit hawks have contributed mightily to this crisis.
In addition, the collapse of unions and pensions has resulted in people generally earning less, having weaker retirement funds, and being able to save less, which further reduced the spending ability of Americans and hurt the labor market.
I believe the problems started in the 1980s with Reaganomics, which recklessly cut taxes on the wealthy (and created record deficits too), cut programs designed to help poorer people enter the middle class, and reduced the influence of unions that helped create a middle class that had enough money that they could support their local small businesses.
Now, we are in a situation where many older people need to continue working longer than they planned, often taking away jobs from younger people. Until we return to a more sensible economic model, like that which predated Reagan, it will be difficult to turn the economy around. I think Obama has taken steps in that direction with the stimulus plan, the auto bailout, his plan to raise taxes on the wealthy, and his general support of public unions.
The conservatives don't really seem to have a plan. They seem to have a superstition, namely if you reduce government, cut taxes, and cut services, everything will be okay. That's based on absolutely nothing, i.e., there is neither real evidence or logic to support that theory. Reagan tried it, and unemployment rose to 10.8% (at which point he changed the methodology), so Reagan raised taxes and created record deficits, and suddenly the economy was doing well again.
__________________ "No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"
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Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsReign
Except the OP (me) is not a "right-winger" HD!
The reason WHY so many highly intelligent people are complaining is this...now read closely HD!
The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
But it's an issue today and moving forward.
It is more important than ever that we understand just how bad the unemployment picture is. We need to understand if going from 10.7% to 8.1% unemployment truly means people are going back to work (they're not). Or if it's just math. Because this will tell Americans what we DESERVE to know because when it comes the condition of our economy, you & I have every right to know EXACTLY what that condition is and our gov't has NO RIGHT to deceive the average citizen of that condition.
Should make sense to you now HD.
I have always gone by the test that if it smells like, looks like and acts like it usually is.. so by this highly reliable eyeball test, you are from the right..
Why didn't you want to change the rules changed by Reagan, when Bush was president?? You seldom whined then..
__________________ "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer
How is using and reporting on the same measure of UE that has been used by the government and in media an example of media spin?
Here's an example....
A politician tells voters that our employment picture is getting better and the media supports his/her statement with distorted facts on a declining unemployment rate.
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBauer
This isn't MSNBC, it's CNBC.
And yeah, it's fine if you want to use another metric if you feel it more accurately captures the real unemployment rate. But you need to be consistent (so, basically, not like Fox News).
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylS
I have always gone by the test that if it smells like, looks like and acts like it usually is.. so by this highly reliable eyeball test, you are from the right..
Why didn't you want to change the rules changed by Reagan, when Bush was president?? You seldom whined then..
But for the record, I hated Reagan with a passion. I've cast a vote for a republican once in my lifetime and that was for Scott Brown.
So you don't really know diddly about my political views and you can't "SMELL" me at all.
But I do for a fact that you're a radical leftie.
BTW....the following is why all of us need to see a new unemployment report;
The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
But it's an issue today and moving forward.
It is more important than ever that we understand just how bad the unemployment picture is. We need to understand if going from 10.7% to 8.1% unemployment truly means people are going back to work (they're not). Or if it's just math. Because this will tell Americans what we DESERVE to know because when it comes the condition of our economy, you & I have every right to know EXACTLY what that condition is and our gov't has NO RIGHT to deceive the average citizen of that condition.
Should make sense to you now Darryl.
__________________ "No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"
Last edited by IcyPatriot; 09-17-2012 at 02:06 PM..
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsReign
Except the OP (me) is not a "right-winger" HD!
The reason WHY so many highly intelligent people are complaining is this...now read closely HD!
The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
But it's an issue today and moving forward.
It is more important than ever that we understand just how bad the unemployment picture is. We need to understand if going from 10.7% to 8.1% unemployment truly means people are going back to work (they're not). Or if it's just math. Because this will tell Americans what we DESERVE to know because when it comes the condition of our economy, you & I have every right to know EXACTLY what that condition is and our gov't has NO RIGHT to deceive the average citizen of that condition.
Should make sense to you now HD.
If you complained that the unemployment #'s were underreported during the last president, then you have no reason to be defensive. I've been saying this since I've been posting in the forum you can check. When I see you posting things like this:
Quote:
The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
But it's an issue today and moving forward.
I have to reply with a "No $#!t?....Where have you been for the last 25 years?"
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holy Diver
If you complained that the unemployment #'s were underreported during the last president, then you have no reason to be defensive. I've been saying this since I've been posting in the forum you can check. When I see you posting things like this:
I have to reply with a "No $#!t?....Where have you been for the last 25 years?"
FYI HD.....we didn't have an UNEMPLOYMENT problem under our last president!!
Where you been?
People only complain about the way unemployment is reported when unemployment is high.
So you wanted me to complain when we had 4% unemployment? I should have attached a rofl guy here!
And btw....I never voted for Bush 1 or 2....and never liked either one. But I DID vote for Clinton TWICE!!
__________________ "No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"
Last edited by PatriotsReign; 09-17-2012 at 12:18 PM..
Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotsReign
No, there is only ONE issue in this thread and that's the accuracely of the manner in which our unemployment is reported.
This isn't a discussion about the history of how unemployment is reported, why unemployment is so damned high or who's fault it is.
Do you understand?
This is a political forum, not a statistics forum. Perhaps if you want to debate methodologies and reason for one formula over another, you should be in a different forum. My point is simply that it doesn't matter what the unemployment rate is. If we had always used the higher rate, then we would think that 10% unemployment was normal, I suppose. But, it does matter why the unemployment rate is so high.
The fact that you are suggesting we use a different metric (something which you've brought up before, by the way, but I guess you like to repeat yourself) right in the heart of the election season is political in my opinion. You're not fooling anyone, PR. Most of your economic posts implicitly attack liberal economics and favor conservative economics.
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Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%
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