Holy Diver

oh word?

do they need to have picture IDs with an expiration date?

if they don't have one, will the states accept other forms of ID?


just asking bro, since you seem to be up on your "poor people" stuff.

Hamar

Yes, in most cases they do have to have photo ID.

The big question is why the discussion about voter ID shifted from "There is no voter fraud" to "Democrats are not the only one committing voter fraud" And, if there is voter fraud (and it is proven that there is), then why are the democrats so against IDs to vote?

Patters

It sounds like you've bought into the MSM lie that all poor people get benefits. Many poor people don't get benefits. For instance, a single person who grosses about $12000/year is not eligible for foodstamps or welfare. If you're elderly and have been in the workforce, your SS benefits aren't going to amount to much at all, but you don't need photo ID to get them--a religious record from when you were a child or a hospital record showing your birth, plus a health insurance card is all that's needed to get a Social Security card. There are many people who fall into these categories in poor areas. In addition, poor people often do not have cars or travel abroad, so they don't have official photo ID.

Pa.'s tough, new voter ID law lands in court | Fox News

The original rationale in Pennsylvania's Republican-controlled Legislature for the law — to prevent election fraud — will play little role in the legal case since the state's lawyers have decided not to make that argument and acknowledged that they are "not aware of any incidents of in person voter fraud."

...

Wilola Lee, 60, is unable to get a birth certificate from her birth state, Georgia, which apparently has no record. Viviette Applewhite, 93, who recalled marching with Martin Luther King Jr. in 1960, testified that she is unable to get a birth certificate and Social Security card with the same last name after being adopted early in life. And Ana Gonzalez, 63, who also was adopted early in life and came to the United States as a child, has no Social Security card and doesn't seem to have the identification necessary to get a birth certificate from Puerto Rico.

Patters

I am prejudiced against the right. I don't think it's racist in the old sense of the word. I don't think the Tea Party is going to go out and lynch black people and remake Amos and Andy. But, I do think that the right consists of a bunch of white people who are intent on passing laws that discriminate against Hispanics, Blacks, and other minorities. They may hide behind some sort of ethical claim because they have to, but the reality of their policies is that it discriminates.

Take those on the right who argue for Libertarian view that private business should be free to discriminate (by race, gender, etc.). They say that are not racist because their view comes from the belief that capitalism works best with as little government involvement as possible. I understand their point of view, but the net result is a more racist society. They say that businesses would not discriminate because it would be unprofitable, but they ignore the reality that there is already a major market for those who would prefer not to interact with minorities. Minorities on the other hand are far more used to interacting with the majority because the majority controls just about everything. Now, from your point of view, Libertarians who have the view I presented are not racist; from my point of view they are because they are not addressing the realities of minority status.

patsfan13

So it sounds as if the poor who are getting benefits are doing so without any ID?

If so THAT is perhaps part of the massive fraud problem associated with the welfare state and needs to be corrected in tandem with the voter ID issue.

Can't believe we have 47 million people getting Food Stamps who don't need ID? same for SS benefits, medicare, medicaid and on and on.

Shocking.

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

patsfan13

BTW realistically if someone can't get to where ever to get a simple voter ID and has no ID to collect benefits are they really going to be voting? Are they even mentally compontent to vote?


Also since libs think this is to suppress minority voters it sounds like they are stereotyping minorities that they are too stupid to perform basic functions in this society
Why would minorities.

It sounds racist and condescending to think this would apply more to minorities than anyone else. But then libs tend towards condescension toward the non college educated elites like rednecks, hispanics and blacks. They feel they are too stupid to get by without the kindness of liberals.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

PatsWSB47

You can't take the worst element form this and the worse element from that and conclude that it represents half of the country's sentiments. For instance I believe that the realities of minority status are often times perpetuated by either well intentioned benefit programs that become a way of life generation after generation or even worse, politicians faux concern that promises benefits their votes. That's a Company Store tactic creating a dependence on them. Why wouldn't they support them? I do believe in addressing the needs of minorities. I don't believe in hurting their chance of reaching their full potentials with fools gold. Shame on them. At the same time I do acknowledge the worst element of the right will disingenuously use libertarianism as cover for racism.... but I'm white. For God's sake can't I ever have a freaking point of view that's not perceived as some kind of code that must be linked to white supremacy?

Patters

I understand that, but that belief is primarily a white middle class belief that is not informed by actual experience or history. Why do you think northern blacks support the Democrats? Is it because they want to return to the good old days of the 1950s when really views like yours were in effect in the north?

I don't think you're a right winger. I never have thought that. You seem to favor laws and policies that are more moderate in nature. There's room for conservative ideas, but not laws that seem to make it more difficult for minorities to vote. I'm not against programs designed to make welfare and related programs increased investment in rehabilitative programs vs. increased investments in punitive programs. From what I have seen, job training that leads to guaranteed jobs gives someone on welfare a fighting chance of making it in our society.

KDPPatsfan85

The Democratic Way!!!

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Patters

It suppresses minorities more than others because minorities are disproportionately poor. When you're poor and struggling to put food on the table, the burden of getting IDs is quite steep. Many poor people do not have money for bus fair and do not know how to navigate the government bureaucracy. Creating such a huge obstacle to the voting rights of the poor will only serve to harm their interests, which to me is against democracy.