PatriotsReign

The following is a quote from a letter written by FDR on August 16, 1937.

"All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management.

The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations.

Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.

A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government until their demands are satisfied. Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government by those who have sworn to support it, is unthinkable and intolerable."

Franklin D. Roosevelt: Letter on the Resolution of Federation of Federal Employees Against Strikes in Federal Service

He was clearly against collective-bargaining for public union employees for very well-stated reasons.

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Patters

Aren't public employees entitled to decent wages? Most public employees don't make fortunes, and where some do something needs to be done. But, most public employees are ordinary members of the middle class, not living in luxury, but living with reasonable degree of comfort.

wistahpatsfan

Same reason they didn't listen to Ike:

...In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.
Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex. - YouTube

Used to be that we just didn't always do what we were told- even if it was for our own good. Now, we pretty much do what we were told.

The government employees are unionized because the courts said they could.

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PatriotsReign

And if they don't get the wages they want, they can quit and get another job just like most people.

The conflict of public unions negotiating with politicians is not in the PUBLIC'S best interests and the public's best interest is the responsibility of all politicians...not the needs of public employees.

Do you have any direct counter-points to FDR's concerns?

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PatriotsReign

We're not discussing the military-industrial complex in this thread...just the conflict of public union collective bargaining and politicians.

Nice try though....

As a tax-paying voter, I don't want my politicians negotiating contracts with public unions and then attempting to gain their support. What are your thoughts on that statement?

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wistahpatsfan

Government employess are more important than other employees? Carpenters, nurses, teachers, ...they are all allowed to unionize and city clerks, water department engineers, and police should be forbidden to unionize? Why? Either you don't think anyone should unionize or you think government workers are much more critical to society. But that would work against the philosophy of the right that states that government workers are a waste and should be privatized. If you value someone so highly that they should never be allowed to strike, then you better pay them accordingly. That's the big connundrum, right?

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wistahpatsfan

I thought the question was "Why didn't we listen to FDR?" Yes. That was the question.

My thoughts on your statement are that you are entitled to them, but you use a big brush to paint this subject. What goes on in Rhode Island, Mississippi, and Massachusetts are three different sets of dynamics. RI is apparently struggling with a culture of corruption that runs very deep. Mississippi deals on a daily basis, with a culture of ignorance and stupidity that handcuffs them on many levels. Massachusetts deals with a culture of commonwealth mentality that operates with a decidedly socialist bent. High taxes, many public services, amazing medical system (which I know is the envy of the rest of the country), great schools and kickazz professional sports teams. So I mostly reject your statement because it is too broad and vague. No offense. Just need more definition.

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PatriotsReign

Wistah...I'm debating from the following perspective:

-Public sector pensions are out of control (how did they get such incredible pensions?)
-No one deserves a pension after working just 20 years (military, maybe)
-States are going bankrupt due to the costs of public sector pensions and life-time health insurance.
-Pensions are based upon the 3 highest earning years and INCLUDES over-time!
-We have retired police officers getting over $100k/year pensions!

Why can't public sector employees be like everyone else in the private sector? In other words, if you don't like what you're paid, do something else.

We have bus-drivers and toll collectors collecting pensions and abusing sick-leave.

What private sector unions negotiate with politicians to get their demands? The answer is...no private-sector union negotiates with politicians.

What do politicians have to gain by pleasing public-sector unions? Do I really have to tell you?

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wistahpatsfan

Do you think that dynamic is any different than the one that controls how politicians behave toward the interest of corporations? I gauranty you that if you compared the flow charts and models (if they exist, and I'm sure they must somewhere), they would be identicle in structure with different labels on the inputs. The differnces would be that the politician/corporate values would be vastly larger.

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PatriotsReign

I agree with you on that too. But that doesn't mean that both are ok....actually, both are wrong in my op.

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