Drewski

13 - I think politics/history can be discussed in the classroom, assuming the students are of an age to understand and partake in the conversation.

Where I draw the line is similar to what chico hit on - where the teacher is passing their personal opinions off on the kids, while ignoring the entirety of the discussion (ie opinions the teacher may not have).

Civil discussion is a worthwhile concept which kids could learn, much like they should learn about history, math, finance, english etc etc etc.

If a teacher holds a kids opinion against them, then that is on the teacher, and should be dealt with accordingly.

For example (anecdote alert) in my 8th grade History class we had a debate. The topic was "Should the US have dropped the Atom Bomb on Japan in WW2".

At the opening of the discussion, I was one of three people with a "yes" vote. Our teacher, a very liberal, peace corp kid in his youth, let each side make their point/s regarding their stance on the issue, with the allowance for people to change their vote based on the debate.

By the end of the debate, through my debate points, I "had" got all but 1 kid to change their opinion to yes, simply based on what I understood on the history of the subject.

In my status card that semester (a note sent home to parents to keep them appraised of how their kid is doing to that point in time in between report card time), Mr. Vahey, wrote that he had legitimate fears that "your son Drew could easily be the next Hitler. His powers of persuasion to get the entire class to change their opinion of a horrible event in history should be watched closely as he goes through HS"

Teachers should allow debate and discussion on politics and history in their classroom. They should not ridicule or put down opinions which they do not share, nor should they grade students who have a different opinion differently than they do the ones they agree with.

patsfan13

I would differentiate between history and current events. In the case of history the issues are less emotional and personal opinions are not nearly as likely to come into play.



How does one stop the teacher from letting their biases get in the way.

My kids had a few occasions where the teacher's biases drove the conversation.




OTOH I was suspended for pointing out in jr high that the US allowed the bombing of Pearl Harbor so we could enter the war. And this was 20 years after the war had ended.

Perhaps with current technology classes could be recorded so parents can review what is being told to their kids?

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

chicowalker

Isn't it easier to keep biases from getting in the way if you know what the biases are?

If a teacher gives a kid a C on a well-written, well-reasoned paper that disagrees with the teacher's own view on a matter, it would be a good indication that their bias influenced things.

Most teachers and then professors I had were good about this. (I had one college professor who clearly would accept no pov that put the US or certain departments in a bad light. Most students knew this, would give their arguments against him in class and then would write papers / exam answers to get the grade they wanted by giving him the answers he wanted. It was bs, but at least we knew the game.)

patsfan13

There are so many things the kids could be learning that aren't topics that would lead to controversy, especially given the poor state of education in America. No need.


My daughter had a prof who wouldn't accept any dissenting POV, she was a feminist, after she had a paper get hammered I advised her to just regurgitate the profs feminist bs, she did and got a A. Total waste of time and money but she needed the credits.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

DarrylS

She was a femininist who regurgitated the profs feminist bs.....

That is very surprising, as anyone I know on that level of education usually supports and relishes dissent or minimally a different POV...

Getting back to the topic at hand, falsely empowering children to videotape children is flat out wrong.. think of all of the possibilities in a work setting or other setting.

Wasn't one of the issues associated with Nazi Germany, the Nazi's provided praise and adulation for kids turning in their teachers and parents???? Turn in a liberal it is your patriotic duty.

__________________
"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

patsfan13

Well since the education establishment is owned by the left wing I don't imagine you would notice the problem. My daughter is libertarian in her POV and it caused a problem. Her paper which didn't tow the acceptable POV got a D the other papers which conformed got A's, while the course was a waste of time perhaps my daughter learned a lot about the lack of tolerance in left wing academia.



A teacher should be saying or doing anything they would be afraid of the school board or parents seeing.

The communist and Nazi's of course wanted a POV that conformed to the administration used to indoctrinate school children. In America we should oppose indoctrination.

YMMV

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

chicowalker

I don't think it's either / or.

Look, this woman certainly appears to be a bad teacher. But good teachers can and should teach current events. high school kids should understand what's going on in politics and what some of the more important issues are and, yes, what some of the more controversial issues are.

(what grade level was this?)

patsfan13

Freshman in college.


But in HS there was a teacher peddling the algore movie in biology class (sophmore) and other cases of agenda's being pushed.


Ideology has no place in public school but it is there far too often.

If the teaching establishment were politically aligned with Rush Limbaugh instead of Nancy Pelosi some people would be screaming bloody murder.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

chicowalker

Bad teachers / professors here and there are hardly damning of all academia.

Where are the conservative teachers?

chicowalker

OK, so in college I don't think there's any question that professors can and should have their own personal views. The issue is how they put them out and how they handle dissent.

Good professors (hell, even bad ones) welcome dissent, as they want debate in class. Many professors will take viewpoints they don't believe in so that there might be more discussion.

This was a bad professor / instructor. Hopefully she won't be one for much longer.