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Why is that the companies' responsibility, though?
I can't remember, maybe you're also one of the proponents here of a so-called living wage, but why is the company responsible for what the employee can or cannot afford?
Why should the government force me to pay for an employee to go to the beach -- even if, as an owner, I can't afford a vacation myself? (and don't forget that at small companies, employees missing work can constitute a huge burden. it's part of doing business, obviously, but you want them to add yet another cost onto that?)
if the government were to do this, could I legally require the employees not to do any work during their time off? (if they have 2 jobs, for example?) or should I be paying them to go do work for somebody else?
Final thought, on the leverage point: aren't you opposed to public sector unions? unions help give employees leverage, for better and worse. Yet when you (as the public) are the employer you would deny them one of their bargaining capabilities at the same time that you try to put more burdens in place on other employers. Why?
I get your point about small companies Chico...good point too. Maybe there would have to be a minimum number of employees to require paid vacation.
My belief is that people who work full-time need vacations. When I say full-time, I'm referring to those who work 52 weeks/yr, so exclude the trade people who typically don't work winters and collect unemployment.
No one should have to work 52 weeks with no time off. I'm a big believer in happy/content workers are more loyal & productive than unhappy employees who are treated as a cost of doing business. People aren't machines and we all need down-time.
I can't stand being around people who act as if work is the focus of their lives and have few outside interests. I'm also getting a little tired of "The American Work Ethic"...I think it's a horrible thing when people are proud of how little time we take off from work.
Life is about enjoying life and taking time to smell the roses. Not about working 24/7. My company recently changed the title of salaried workers from "Exempt Employees" to "24/7 Employees"....think I have a reason to be irritated about this topic?
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Obviously because they care about employees and US companies don't. That's what you're trying to say isn't it?
Proof is in the pudding.....
Yes, Germans care more about their workforce....China not so much but they do offer paid days off, that alone should make most Americans stop and think.
I've been around a bit and I understand business to a point, somethings I don't understand and I don't pretend too but I do know that most businesses don't fail because they have to pay a fair wage or offer bennies or taxes, they fail because they are ran like crap and owned by people that don't understand business.
I have had bosses that bought new trucks every month, bought 400k houses and spent their money unwisely......they went out of business eventually and its not because they had to pay a fair wage or offer bennies or taxes it was because they were greedy idiots that lived outside there means. Cared more about the money, then the people they employed and the services they did.
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Last edited by Ilikehappyppl; 05-21-2012 at 06:02 PM..
That's pretty funny.....Then why can all these other country's companies afford it then?
Most on that list have higher tax rates to boot, so why can they afford it but we can't afford it here in the USA?
Every company should offer some paid vacation, after all its the workers that make the products or sell them, why shouldn't they have paid vacation? Its the right thing to do....
The government shouldn't have to make a law for companies to do this, they should do it on their own already, its just like min wage, you shouldn't have to make laws to tell people to do the right thing......
So I don't know what's worse, the fact that companies are always trying to rip off their workers, or the fact that we have to make laws to protect people so that companies do the right thing......
A few thoughts.
First, the question of what a business "should" do -- whether b/c it's good for the business, good for the employees or both -- is different from what the government should (and can) force a business to do.
Second, re the bold, having been on both sides of the fence, I can say that (i) no, not all companies try to rip off their workers and (ii) why don't we ever hear people complain about the workers who try to "rip off" their employers? Because (ii) certainly happens, all the time -- and not just in terms of outright theft, but in terms of slacking off at work, calling in sick when they're not, etc.
First, the question of what a business "should" do -- whether b/c it's good for the business, good for the employees or both -- is different from what the government should (and can) force a business to do.
Second, re the bold, having been on both sides of the fence, I can say that (i) no, not all companies try to rip off their workers and (ii) why don't we ever hear people complain about the workers who try to "rip off" their employers? Because (ii) certainly happens, all the time -- and not just in terms of outright theft, but in terms of slacking off at work, calling in sick when they're not, etc.
I agree with the bold part, bad choice of words on my part, I was wrong.
Not all company's are bad or greedy or try to rip off their workforce, some companies are good to their workforce and offer great pay and bennies.
Yes it goes both ways, some people are just bad workers that try and slack or rip off their employer, I agree.
I don't think we should have laws like this, or even min wage laws but its not a prefect world and some people choose not to do the right thing.....So its just one of those things....
I get your point about small companies Chico...good point too. Maybe there would have to be a minimum number of employees to require paid vacation.
My belief is that people who work full-time need vacations. When I say full-time, I'm referring to those who work 52 weeks/yr, so exclude the trade people who typically don't work winters and collect unemployment.
No one should have to work 52 weeks with no time off. I'm a big believer in happy/content workers are more loyal & productive than unhappy employees who are treated as a cost of doing business. People aren't machines and we all need down-time.
I can't stand being around people who act as if work is the focus of their lives and have few outside interests. I'm also getting a little tired of "The American Work Ethic"...I think it's a horrible thing when people are proud of how little time we take off from work.
Life is about enjoying life and taking time to smell the roses. Not about working 24/7. My company recently changed the title of salaried workers from "Exempt Employees" to "24/7 Employees"....think I have a reason to be irritated about this topic?
I agree with you about attitudes toward work, the benefits of time off, etc.
I would be more inclined to agree with you that companies should permit some amount of vacation time, just not paid.
And perhaps companies that don't permit any vacation time should be required to pay time and a half or something for that extra week or two that they won't let employees take -- just like OT for working more than 8-9 hrs/day or more than 40 hrs / wk, etc. Again, this is just off the top of my head.
Yes, Germans care more about their workforce....China not so much but they do offer paid days off, that alone should make most Americans stop and think.
I've been around a bit and I understand business to a point, somethings I don't understand and I don't pretend too but I do know that most businesses don't fail because they have to pay a fair wage or offer bennies or taxes, they fail because they are ran like crap and owned by people that don't understand business.
I have had bosses that bought new trucks every month, bought 400k houses and spent their money unwisely......they went out of business eventually and its not because they had to pay a fair wage or offer bennies or taxes it was because they were greedy idiots that lived outside there means. Cared more about the money, then the people they employed and the services they did.
I'm not sure Germans care more about their employees. I've worked with many Germans and they were very driven, very serious. Want to see a fish out of water? Put a German consultant into a south Chicago manufacturing plant. Doesn't work well, even if the German does like to take several weeks of vacation.
I don't know for sure, but I think it's simply cultural. germans, like many Europeans, tend to take a lot of vacation. But unlike some europeans, Germans also tend to be very serious when they are working. Maybe that's why their economy is still doing well. (Again, this last paragraph is based solely on my own observations and conjecture -- could be completely wrong. )
I'd be in favor of mandating various employee benes including vacation.
Understand: in theory, you're getting less money per year than you could theoretically get if you're working all the time. Or, you're getting less now than you otherwise would if you're getting a pension. Or, you're getting less if you're getting some other thing, like maternity/paternity leave.
This is part of what it means to just accept you are a society, and that there's nothing wrong with the fact that I'll work while you're on vaca, and vice versa. Or, even though the Mrs. and I aren't about to have kids, I'll work for your kids to have you around... because, in general, the rest of the package "we" all get is fine by me.
Just sticking w/the narrow question of vacation, I'm definitely for it, no matter how it pissed off the Waltons
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Re: Americans and Vacations
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