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UMASS is 23K now...includes room and board. first one got OSU for less......haven't bothered applying for the rest.......I don't know if it is general public school policy, but they don't give anything for in-state....its almost like MIT where they will take everything you have and still use your IRA as an asset......some schools can get away with it
Wow...greedy UMass
I guess if you are judging total nut, then I see your point.
Tuition and required fees were really all I was counting, since those are all you have to pay.
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In the context of the discussion, which is it fits the topic more?
infinite definition:
Limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate.
1. Impossible to measure.
(Not enough known, or unable to make an observation.)
(If you are blind, and I place a coin on a table, would you be able to tell me where the coin is with out error.)
2. Limitless in space.
(Where space has defined parameters.)
(If you can see, and I place a coin on a table, would you be able to tell me where the coin is with out error.)
A free market would fall into a place where space unbounded, variables can lead to vicious markets, radical things will happen.
Big government defines space, and attempts to control the variables, so bad things don't happen.
People who want easy monies don't want space to be defined.
I didn't get the "bubble" analogy. First and foremost, we need to educate our youth as well as workers whose job has been shipped out of the country. It should be easy to get a student loan. If there is a problem with making restitution, then the government has to figure out a way to help (actually, many politicians have 'talked' about this while campaigning).
Currently, I am working on my masters in Adult Education from Penn St. I live west of Chicago and don't commute. I also am on the other side of 50 (think gray). I could talk at length about distance education and accreditation which Cuban touched on. The problem is, I'm not sure what point he was trying to make. Should we make it harder to receive student loans? Are we going to have a student loan collapse like the housing market? If so, how does that actually happen?
When I see the courseware for the Ipad at the Itunes stores the traditional college is obsolete especially given the obscene tuition cost.
When I was in school we speculated about an 8.5x11 computer that could hold an entire Physics major (instead of lugging around the huge book. now it exists with the enbedded lectures.
Other than parties why pay 40k a year to go to a classroom when the information is on the web?
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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
I didn't get the "bubble" analogy. First and foremost, we need to educate our youth as well as workers whose job has been shipped out of the country. It should be easy to get a student loan. If there is a problem with making restitution, then the government has to figure out a way to help (actually, many politicians have 'talked' about this while campaigning).
Currently, I am working on my masters in Adult Education from Penn St. I live west of Chicago and don't commute. I also am on the other side of 50 (think gray). I could talk at length about distance education and accreditation which Cuban touched on. The problem is, I'm not sure what point he was trying to make. Should we make it harder to receive student loans? Are we going to have a student loan collapse like the housing market? If so, how does that actually happen?
The bubble is the the cost of tuition.
Think housing prices and mortgage backed securities. That's the analagous situation.
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Quote:
"People say, 'What will you do if you don't play football?' Why would I even think of doing anything else? What would I do instead of run out in front of 80,000 people and command 52 guys and be around guys I consider brothers and be one of the real gladiators? Why would I ever want to do anything else? It's so hard to think of anything that would match what I do: Fly to the moon? Jump out of planes? Bungee-jump off cliffs? None of that s--- matters to me. I want to play this game I love, be with my wife and son, and enjoy life." - Tom Brady
My take on what Cuban was saying re: the "bubble" PR was exactly how you mentioned it above.
Tuition keeps rising and rising, partly because schools know kids/parents will get the loans to pay for it.
Similar to real estate - when mortgages were "easy" to get, prices went up and up and up, beyond what the realistic market was. Now, one could argue that the market is whatever someone is willing to pay, but that isnt exactly true.
For instance, my wife and I recently bought a home. It was our "number 2". Our number one was a lovely home, with lots of character. Great layout, nice wood work etc etc etc. It last sold in 2005 for 370K. The next most expensive house in that neighborhood, sold two weeks prior to our number one, for 100K less. The market "bared" the 370K price, because someone was willing to go that high, but in reality, the market for that home was much much less. But the couple that bought it got a loan for the amount and all is happy.
They are now so underwater it isnt even funny. We put 3 "market fair" offers into them and after the last their agent came back and said if we raised our offer 40K, they would think about it because they would still have to come up with 20K at close.
My college degree says UMass Amherst on it. I know a quite a few kids who have papers that say Harvard, Amherst College and BC to name a few. All of those schools cost exponentially more than what it cost me to go to college. However the salaries they are making are less than what it cost them to go for that degree, while I am fortunate enough to have done fairly well in my field with no real school experience for it. I graduated with a degree in Consumer and Family Economics, and I am a SQL Dev for a living. The two aren't even close to being related.
The ROI on my college investment, to date, has been great, even through the recession. But people who paid 45K a year to go to Harvard (or whatever it costs now) aren't finding jobs that will pay them enough to pay back that investment in a fair amount of time, thus the bubble.
I have a tough time arguing for the OWS point about forgiving college loan debt, in fact I am against the idea on principle. Similar to people under water on their homes, they all have my utmost sympathy for their situations, but at the end of the day, choices were made by people, and now that "infinite growth" has slowed - in RE and Tuition/Salary ROI, they are stuck holding the bag.
There is an argument to make that getting people out from debt of their homes and student loans would help the economy. But all investments have consequences. Whether it is the stock market, housing market, or your college tuition, sometimes everything works out peachy-keen, and sometimes it doesn't.
Looks like you & I agreed here Drewski!
__________________ "No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"
The biggest argument against helping/bailing out people who are in deep debt is that we would be rewarding people who screwed up and punishing those who didn't.
There is no rationale for helping people who got themselves into deep debt...none at all.
There you go.
Work hard and youre punished with higher taxes. Totally screw your life up and youre rewarded with welfare and other entitlements.
Did someone say "free money" when discussing tuition?
Big Government is the answer!
I'm with Drew and PR on this. From the of why tuition is a bubble, all the way to where one said debt forgiveness is not an option.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
there is no such thing as "infinite growth" on a planet of very finite resources. ... it's the same whether we're talking about real estate prices, domestic GDP, PMI, college debt, derivatives trading, job creation and on and on and on and on and on... this is an immutable fact.
the world is slowly coming to grips with hard limits, and it's not taking it very well. ... telling a cultist of finance that the world economy has limits is like telling a child he can't have that toy in Wal-Mart. ... usually a temper tantrum and foot stomping... but you just wait him out and wait for reality to hit his sensibilities.
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Last edited by Titus Pullo; 09-11-2012 at 03:40 PM..
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Re: Infinite Growth
Linear Mode
