ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW
Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!
I do not think this is a case of racism or hate crime. I think Zimmerman followed him ... broke it off. The kid came at him, slammed him down and hit him and Zimmerman shot him. I do not think Zimmerman had any right to shoot the kid ... I think Zimmerman should at the very least be charged with involuntary manslaughter - the gun was not justified as Zimmerman had no basis for thinking his life was in danger. Even if he did he could have wounded the kid ... he did not have to shoot him in the chest area.
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!
Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.
NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98
I'm with you on just about everything. I'm not defending, I'm explaining. The profiling led to every event that ended martin's life. It was needless and was completely preventable.
The point is there is a widespread paranoia of violent blacks that transcends all political and racial makeups. The reason we got to this point started hundreds of years ago, but here we are. The very conspicuous black crime rates that have been posted here are not unnoticed by the population at large. I agree that the stats are exploited by some elements on the right but like it or not it's a problem that has to be dealt with, not dismissed or ignored or it will only continue. Take away all the right wing broadcasts of it and we will still have the crime rate. Dissecting the stats to make a point about who suffers the greatest likelihood of being a victim of a hate crime doesn't answer this. It supports the profiling theory of what happened but knowing that doesn't end there. We have to recognize that the paranoia will not stop until the violent crime rates go down and even then it will take a long time before people...people of all races, and political persuasions relax.
What point are you trying to make? I understand there's a largely irrational fear of blacks by some people, but I'm really not sure of what relevance that is. Of course, we need to address the underlying issues that cause crime, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything either. The fact remains that, regardless of the validity of your points, a young man was murdered by a vigilante simply for walking down the street. If the vigilante had heeded police instructions, the police would have done their duty, and I very much doubt there would have been a murder. Paranoia and profiling are not relevant.
What point are you trying to make? I understand there's a largely irrational fear of blacks by some people, but I'm really not sure of what relevance that is. Of course, we need to address the underlying issues that cause crime, but I'm not sure what that has to do with anything either. The fact remains that, regardless of the validity of your points, a young man was murdered by a vigilante simply for walking down the street. If the vigilante had heeded police instructions, the police would have done their duty, and I very much doubt there would have been a murder. Paranoia and profiling are not relevant.
Paranoia and profiling is what made this tragedy possible. He was "walking down the street while black" Don't follow him and martin is still alive having done nothing wrong. Whatever Martin, Zimmerman or the police did or didn't do after that is of course what has to be investigated. The FBI is involved now. We can't put the toothpaste back in the tube but hopefully the truth will be uncovered.
Ok, so replace the word arrested in my post with whatever the proper term would be -- what I was saying remains the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa
No.
Apparently, and it's still a "breaking story" so it may turn out to be wrong, the the lead investigating officer wanted Zimmerman charged but the State's Attorney vetoed the idea.
He even went so far as to file an affidavit stating that he thought Zimmerman was lying - which, from what I understand, is highly unusual for a police officer to do.
Had he been arrested there would have been mug shots, his clothing would have been taken and held for evidence, he would have been drug and alcohol tested, he would have had a bail hearing, a bond set, a trial date set, etc..
Being brought into the station for quesioning is not the same thing as being arrested. One of my kids once spent 48 hours in a cell without ever being charged with anything. I believe the police told me that they can hold you for up to 72 hours without actually arresting you, letting you contact a lawyer or making a phone call. I remember being highly ticked off at the time. I thought he was lying dead in a ditch somewhere.
I'm with you on just about everything. I'm not defending, I'm explaining. The profiling led to every event that ended martin's life. It was needless and was completely preventable.
The point is there is a widespread paranoia of violent blacks that transcends all political and racial makeups. The reason we got to this point started hundreds of years ago, but here we are. The very conspicuous black crime rates that have been posted here are not unnoticed by the population at large. I agree that the stats are exploited by some elements on the right but like it or not it's a problem that has to be dealt with, not dismissed or ignored or it will only continue. Take away all the right wing broadcasts of it and we will still have the crime rate. Dissecting the stats to make a point about who suffers the greatest likelihood of being a vicim of a hate crime doesn't answer this. It supports the profiling theory of what happened but just knowing that doesn't end it there. We have to recognize that the paranoia will not stop until the violent crime rates go down and even then it will take a long time before people...people of all races, and political persuasions relax.
Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported a decrease of 6.4 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention for the first 6 months of 2011 when compared with figures reported for the same time in 2010. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The number of property crimes in the United States from January to June of 2011 decreased 3.7 percent when compared with data from the same time period in 2010. Property crimes include burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. Arson is also a property crime, but data for arson are not included in property crime totals. Figures for 2011 indicate that arson decreased 8.6 percent when compared to 2010 figures from the same time period.
It's not just one 6-month blip; the crime rate's down to where it was in the late 60s (after the peak in '92.)
The general prevalence of minorities committing crimes in general makes whites fear blacks; perhaps because of that race fear (or, as Patro insists, just because minorities have it coming because they're minorities,) the hate crimes go the other way.
Men commit ten times the crimes that women commit. Nobody's too concerned -- it does go unnoticed by the general population (at least of men.)
Blacks and hispanics have way higher rates of crime in general, and as you say it "does not go unnoticed" -- especially by white males, the predominance of this board and the race of the good Mr. Zimmerman.
Whites tend not to be victimized in hate crimes like blacks are. Jews, to a lesser extent Muslims, and gays are the other big (non-racial) hate crime targets.
Yet perhaps the biggest overall surprise, whether you're white, black, pink, or purple, is the fact that crime has been steadily declining, not increasing. Ask an average American and he'll tell you "it's worse than ever," regardless of when you ask. The decrease in crime overall does go unnoticed by all the fear-mongers on every side.
Yes, zero is better than current rates, but current rates are better than 1992 rates... and they've been getting better since that time.
Just a few points. We can get all looped around the crime rates by race, but somehow ignore rates by gender, or the general decline in rates.
But let's forget that for a minute - seems like this vigilante bullstuff seems more important to the extent that you think the sky is falling, and everything's getting worse and worse...
But the truth is, in terms of violent crime and property time, you haven't been safer in America since the 1960s.
If some creep was following your wife, and she was afraid and decided to confront the creep, I guess you'd say the creep had the right to shoot and kill your wife.
If my wife were scared she wouldn't confront anyone or assault the person.
Quote:
In other words, your argument makes no sense. Zimmerman was the perpetrator. Martin may not have been a good kid and may have made bad decisions, but from everything I have read he was not doing anything wrong. What the hell is wrong with the right wing turning the victim into a criminal? Martin didn't do anything as far as we know until he was approached by the creep who was following him.
I don't know what happened as I have stated many times. I also think you do not know what happened, I also think the media may have a political agenda clearly this is being hyped in order to rasie racial tensions for political purposes.
I think this is also racist.
__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
it amazes me how a hispanic male can all of a sudden be white because imbecilic clueless lefties thinks it fits their antique old fashioned agenda of white guilt. Get the hell over yourself.
Unless you saw what happened with your own two eyes, you have zero idea what happened. Not one single soul on this board deserves to see anything. No one outside the proper law enforcement agency does.
And I'm sorry, but if someone attacks me they forfeit their life, period. I'm not going to hold up just because they don't have a machine gun pointed at my head. Frankly their are far too many human beings alive as it is. It seems to be diluting the intelligence of the entire human race.
The hispanic zimmerman might be a mentally insane murderer. The kid might have been. Only the police have any idea which is true. No one around here ever will.
it amazes me how a hispanic male can all of a sudden be white because imbecilic clueless lefties thinks it fits their antique old fashioned agenda of white guilt.
He was reported to be white because that's how he was identified on the police reports - as a white male.
I suppose you think all the cops in the town were inbecilic clueless lefties with an old fashioned white guilt agenda.
It's not just one 6-month blip; the crime rate's down to where it was in the late 60s (after the peak in '92.)
The general prevalence of minorities committing crimes in general makes whites fear blacks; perhaps because of that race fear (or, as Patro insists, just because minorities have it coming because they're minorities,) the hate crimes go the other way.
Men commit ten times the crimes that women commit. Nobody's too concerned -- it does go unnoticed by the general population (at least of men.)
Blacks and hispanics have way higher rates of crime in general, and as you say it "does not go unnoticed" -- especially by white males, the predominance of this board and the race of the good Mr. Zimmerman.
Whites tend not to be victimized in hate crimes like blacks are. Jews, to a lesser extent Muslims, and gays are the other big (non-racial) hate crime targets.
Yet perhaps the biggest overall surprise, whether you're white, black, pink, or purple, is the fact that crime has been steadily declining, not increasing. Ask an average American and he'll tell you "it's worse than ever," regardless of when you ask. The decrease in crime overall does go unnoticed by all the fear-mongers on every side.
Yes, zero is better than current rates, but current rates are better than 1992 rates... and they've been getting better since that time.
Just a few points. We can get all looped around the crime rates by race, but somehow ignore rates by gender, or the general decline in rates.
But let's forget that for a minute - seems like this vigilante bullstuff seems more important to the extent that you think the sky is falling, and everything's getting worse and worse...
But the truth is, in terms of violent crime and property time, you haven't been safer in America since the 1960s.
That's interesting if you ax me. Pun intended.
PFnV
That's good news but as I think about that I wonder how much more than the vigilante bull**** the internet with it's news sites, tweets and blogs along with cable and satellite and cable TV have not only neutralized the drop in rate reality but have given us perception that it's on the rise. Bad news travels fast. Perception is reality.
That's good news but as I think about that I wonder how much more than the vigilante bull**** the internet with it's news sites, tweets and blogs along with cable and satellite and cable TV have not only neutralized the drop in rate reality but have given us perception that it's on the rise. Bad news travels fast. Perception is reality.
No doubt that any seed of hate or hysteria grows crazy fast w/the interwebs. I wonder though, whether kids who grew up with it are more immune to it.
(Just like sitting in front of a TV watching Cronkite say "28 wounded and 12 dead tonight..." seemed like this huge trauma to the WWII generation even though they'd lived through orders of magnitude worse... they didn't do it during dinner.... now here we are, Uncle Walt's kids, unable to process 100 websites and YouTubes and cable news shows... it all seems to have ramped up, but we just have more access to input.)
15Likes
Re: The Police incident report.
Linear Mode
