PatriotsReign

I realize this may not be the appropriate forum for this but was hoping our mod's would allow some leniency because it's a topic that touches all social issues. And I'd like to read comments from this group if that's ok.

I found out this morning that one of my co-workers and friend committed suicide on Wednesday. This man had been sober for a long period, but started drinking again about 18 months ago. We had many good talks before he started drinking again.

At a recent company meeting, he pulled me aside and said, "Whatever you do, don't ever convince yourself you can drink again!" He went on to tell me, "I started out being normal, but it kept getting worse and now I can't stop....and the saddest part is, I don't even feel like trying to stop."

This man will never know that by dying, he is helping me and probably others. Sad as that may sound, it's true.

Those of you who aren't alcoholics will never know or understand and I'm grateful you don't. In AA meetings everywhere, you hear the phrase "Alcolism is cunning, baffling and insidious..." and I have that to be true....especially today.

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"No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"

Patsfanin Philly

Sorry, for your friend and the family left behind. We don't know the demons that others have to battle.....

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Um, Mr. Brady, can we line up?

PatriotsReign

You're right about that and thank you Philly.

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"No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"

cupofjoe1962

I am sorry for your loss PR

I have been down that road and it is not a pleasant road.
I lost a couple of friends to suicide before and after I got sober.

We are not talking about skid rowe guys either.
A couple of these guys had everything to live for....

One guy had a owned a successful company, made a ton of money and he
picked up. He bounced in and out of detox & finally took his life
while at Highpoint.

The sad thing is we talked about suicide a couple years earlier.
A mutual friend had taken his life and left a beautiful wife and a couple
of great kids. He also had a owned a successful business.

We talked about how we would never do this.....
Less than five years later, he was gone.

I have been sober 16+ years and every now and then the thought
enters my head that I could have a couple of beers. I do know where
a couple of beers would bring me....... Right back to the drugs.
I pray every day that I donn't pick up. I don't worry about what it
would do to me, I worry about what it would do to my family.

PatriotsReign

I pray neither you nor I go down that route CoJ. The strange part is that although drinking may appear to be the easy way, it's actually the hard way.

My life is much easier when I don't drink.

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"No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"

Mrs.PatsFanInVa

I am sorry for the men who committed suicide - I am sorry for those who knew them - I am most sorry for the people who loved them.

I come at alcoholism from the "other side," the family side. The damage it does to a family is beyond telling. There are many, many things which occured in my life due to alcoholism which I will never speak about and which I will never, really, recover from.

Much like a dog who's been beaten cringes at the sight of a raised hand or the sound of a loud voice, women and children who've suffered at the hands of an out-of-control alcoholic will always cringe at the same things - no matter how far removed they become from the time, place and person.

It becomes instinctive - because it once meant survival, it remains survival.

Life with an alcoholic places so many demands on a person - even in times of sobriety those demands do not lessen. I'm told that most women, if their husbands are late coming home from work, either don't even notice - or if they do, they are unconcerned. The wife of an alcoholic or a recovering alcoholic immediately begins preparing for the worst case scenerio. An accident, a night spent in jail, a night spent with some woman met in the bar, or - even worse - he'll come home - and he'll be loud and he'll be mean and he'll do some unspeakable damage to her or the children which he will either forget or deny in the morning. And, chances are, if he does remember or acknowledge, he will blame her or the children. And she, who has become just as sick as he, will agree.

Everything good in a family is easily tainted by alcohol abuse. Christmas, Easter, birthday parties, childbirth, vacations, dinner, breakfast, school functions, sports functions - they all fall like dominoes after one too many martinis. They are not anticipated, they are dreaded. They are not to be enjoyed, they are to be gotten through.

Can I accept that it is a disease? Yeah, I can. But only to a point. Just like cancer and lung disease and heart disease, a person has a choice as how to deal with it. Alcoholism seems to demand that everything else stop - a recovering alcoholic must be coddled - he mustn't be "triggered," he mustn't be overburdened. Which leaves, once again, family members, who may be equally unprepared to deal with whatever stress is occuring, alone again.

People worry about second-hand smoke all the time. They demand that no oen smoke in their home when their children are present, but they don't often refer to second-hand alcoholism or how dangerous it is to those subjected to it on a regular basis.

I am aware of groups like Al-Anon and AlaTeen but it's been my experience that they're hit or miss and if you find a good one you're lucky.

What saved me and my children was a wonderful stranger - the kind that God sends - A female psychologist who started a support group for battered women - and who took a special interest in me for some unknown reason and who, over the course of time, convinced me that I would die if I did not leave and that I not only could but should get the hell out. If I could not save him I needed to save my children and because I needed to save my children I need to save myself because my children would not survive without me.

I had thought that his demons were our demons but it turned out they belonged to him alone.

That does not mean that his demons did not leave scars on all of us.

Texxx

I'm very sorry to about this loss and to hear a story like this. It sounds like the guy just couldn't find happiness with the bottle or without it unfortunately. I lost a childhood friend to suicide about two years ago from depression issues that I could never fully understand. Suicide is always the worst way to hear about someone's death. It's hard to accept.

PatriotsReign

Great post MrsP...and I'm glad you took the time to share this.

In AA, it said alcoholics are like a tornado. We tear apart all who made the choice to be near us...and often, some who had no choice. It is true that people get hurt by our actions and by our sickness.

Not all addicts/alcoholics have a mean or violient streak, but there are enough of them/us. The people that are damaged by alcoholism most often did nothing to deserve what they got. So I understand your feelings about "coddling" the recovering alcoholic.

In my opinion, what it comes down to is that a person beginning recovery MUST do whatever they need to do to stop drinking. That is more important that family or friends to us. And that's because if we don't stop, there is no family or friends. From your side, it may appear that (dying) would be the fairest solution and I understand that 100%.

I guess the worst part of being close to an alcoholic is that even upon beginning recovery, it's still all about them. We are selfish by nature, I'll admit that. But if we don't change at some point, we'll either be dry-drunks or we'll start drinking again and die.

Living with an active or recovering alcoholic is not easy. But I know a lot of people who recovered (as in got better, not just stopped drinking) and have lead amazing & loving family lives. I even know some who worked hard on their issues while their spouse did nothing. Anyone who has lived with active alcoholism also must get better as no one comes out unaffected by this crap. I know it's not fair, but people like yourself also have a responsibility to do something about their sickness. Yes, living with an alcoholic makes everyone sick and in need of help.

I'm glad God put someone in your life who has helped you. But you still had to make that decision to take action and that took courage on your part. I hope you never have to deal with this sickness again. It sounds like you've had more than your fair share.

BTW...coincidentally, I watched a movie last night called "Buck" which was a documentary on the real horse whisperer. He and his brother were beaten daily as a child by his alcoholic father. He talked about the pain that caused him for years. But he also spoke of how he would not allow that to be the path he chose. Honestly, I think you'd love the movie as I know you also love animals. I think it was on HBO. It even got me teary-eyed more than once. I never watched a man who knows himself as much as this man does.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/12/mo...pagewanted=all

‘Buck,’ Inspiration for ‘Horse Whisperer’ - Review - NYTimes.com

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"No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"

scout

Sorry for your loss Reign. Prayers and thoughts go out to his family and friends. There is always room for this type of discussion on this board IMO.

PatriotsReign

One of the things I admire about people is that they forget about partisanship bs when it comes to things like this. I appreciate comments from anyone regardless of pov...and likewise people like yourself do the same when they offer their condolences.

Thanks Scout...much appreciated.

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"No one walking this earth knows what is truly righteous"