Patriotism - New England Patriots Forums

PatriotsReign · 07-04-2008, 11:06 PM

I think we can all agree this is an appropriate topic for this July 4th holiday. I was watching the Boston Pops on television tonight and getting that awesome patriotic feeling. I saw thousands waving the flag of the United States of America and it dawned on me that I can't tell if these people are democrats or republican...liberal or conservative. I'm sure both were well represented.

I saw a little clip of men & women from the US Navy celebrating this special holiday and thought "hey, even people who join our armed forces are made up of democrats and republicans.

The point I want to make clear here is that neither party has Patriotism on their side...they BOTH do. For some reason on this board there have been comments made that insinuate that democrats and liberals are not as patriotic as republicans and conservatives. That it is not patriotic to criticize this great country. Or that being contemptuous about "corporate America" is less patriotic than being pro-corporate America.

I know this isn't true of all who are more conservative and I'm not trying to widen the gap that exists between the 2 philosophies we often debate amongst our members. Maybe republicans feel that liberals do the same thing to them...and maybe that is true also

I would like to hear other's thoughts on this while keeping the respect we all deserve as American citizens. I believe that the difficult times we're facing and the stress it causes may make us want to blame the "other" side and lash out. But in difficult times Americans have always pulled together and made this country a better place to live.

***DarrylS*** · 07-05-2008, 06:38 AM

One of the most concerning things that I have seen surface in the past 10-15 years is the polarization of the political parties by most of us. Conservative Bad, Libs good and versa vica... the polarization is played into by talk radio, various big screen propaganda, print media and displayed vividly on this board. It is to the point that everything read is done so with skepticism, as the reader is not sure if it is biased, begged or a lie..

Having always been a skeptic and a doubter of the big gov't it has been a very difficult time.. the worst part of this is that often in discourse a person's patriotism is questioned.. if you do not believe this then you are aiding and abetting the enemy and a bad american, whatever this means..

It is quite simple, I read the Declaration of Independence yesterday and it is as valid now as it was then.. these documents have stood the test of time.. and despite our polarization and tooo much free time, I suspect that in 200 years from now people will be continuing to read the same documents and be inspired.

Yesterday was waiting to go to a function, and was checking out some you tube stuff, there was a clip of the seal from California, Michael Monsor(sp), who died in combat.. it showed the funeral service, it was quite moving .. without regard for any of our political affiliation, we are all american whether you like it or not.. we can express dissenting views freely.. we have great freedoms.. when this stop this we will just be another country who used to be great.

wistahpatsfan · 07-05-2008, 07:05 AM

The whole "liberal democrat" vs. "conservative republican" is possibly the most dangerous, devisive and FALSE dynamic that exists in our society. The definitions being used by the government/corporate controlled media have taken on a cartoonish meaning that no longer reflects any traditional or literal definition. A "liberal" is someone who thinks gays should have equal rights or opposes a war. A "conservative" supports the military no matter what and believes in Creationism. It happens in all societies that drift toward cultural and, eventually, actual totalitarian control - the powers that be change and manipulate the language. Patriotism is defined by those in control. The emblems and symbols of national and cultural identity take on exaggerated importance as we have seen in Constitutional Ammendment attempts to "protect the flag" and "protect marriage".

I think it's good to take sides on one issue or another. IMO, there are some issues that warrant accusations of being unpatriotic or patriotic, depending on what "side" you're considering. There are definite actions and degrees of negligence that can be assessed to be against the best interest of the country. Treasonous acts DO occur. Heinous neglect of duty amongst our elected and appointed officoals DO occur. But neither occur on the behalf of one party or another. They occur on the behalf of self-serving individuals and corporations who have only themselves to answer to (in their opinion).

Then there's the myth of a "two party" system. I have discussed this at length before so I won't belabor the issue. All I'll say on that is look at the two candidates who we are left with (according to the media). They have both drifted to the center so far from their original political moorings that neither one is recognizeable to their supporters but both are somehow deemed acceptable to both "parties" as legitimate candidates for the most important position (unless we're talking about the last 8 years) in the world. The corporate media says this is good and representative of America as a whole when the truth is the opposite. The only purpose it serves is to maintain the status quo. Nothing is more dangerous to controlling power than instability. Good thing for us that the Founding Fathers thought otherwise.

PatriotsReign · 07-05-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wistahpatsfan

The whole "liberal democrat" vs. "conservative republican" is possibly the most dangerous, devisive and FALSE dynamic that exists in our society. The definitions being used by the government/corporate controlled media have taken on a cartoonish meaning that no longer reflects any traditional or literal definition. A "liberal" is someone who thinks gays should have equal rights or opposes a war. A "conservative" supports the military no matter what and believes in Creationism. It happens in all societies that drift toward cultural and, eventually, actual totalitarian control - the powers that be change and manipulate the language. Patriotism is defined by those in control. The emblems and symbols of national and cultural identity take on exaggerated importance as we have seen in Constitutional Ammendment attempts to "protect the flag" and "protect marriage".

I think it's good to take sides on one issue or another. IMO, there are some issues that warrant accusations of being unpatriotic or patriotic, depending on what "side" you're considering. There are definite actions and degrees of negligence that can be assessed to be against the best interest of the country. Treasonous acts DO occur. Heinous neglect of duty amongst our elected and appointed officoals DO occur. But neither occur on the behalf of one party or another. They occur on the behalf of self-serving individuals and corporations who have only themselves to answer to (in their opinion).

Then there's the myth of a "two party" system. I have discussed this at length before so I won't belabor the issue. All I'll say on that is look at the two candidates who we are left with (according to the media). They have both drifted to the center so far from their original political moorings that neither one is recognizeable to their supporters but both are somehow demmed acceptable to both "parties" as legitimate candidates for the most important position (unless we're talking about the last 8 years) in the world. The corporate media says this is good and representative of America as a whole when the truth is the opposite. The only purpose it serves is to maintain the status quo. Nothing is more dangerous to controlling power than instability. Good thing for us that the Founding Fathers thought otherwise.

Awesome stuff Wista...you and GJAJ15 really put some great thought into your posts and I loved reading them both. You actually reminded me that I have friends and associates who are pro-choice AND are Republicans.

I think we need to remember that we, the people of the United States represent America...our government does NOT. And I think we need to constantly remind ourselves that WE have power OVER our government and not the other way around. They serve us, we are not ruled by "them".

STFarmy · 07-05-2008, 12:59 PM

Two smart people people can be put in the same circumstance and one comes out conservative and the other liberal - the point is we all have to work together. While people like us squabble stuff on a messageboard, politicans from both parties get richer from our apathy and distraction.