otis p. driftwood

A CD or a bunch of bonds aren't stock. So far I'm actually doing pretty well, and it's fun. I buy a lot of stuff for the return, I don't play much with speculative stuff...actually I don't speculate at all. My speculative play is a gold/copper company. LOL

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otis p. driftwood

If they closed all loopholes, eliminated all deductions, and set an exemption of 17 or 18K, then taxed the rest, everyone would get hit equally. That would even get the super rich who live off of interest and trusts.

But wistah is really making me think about the sales tax idea...I just don't know.

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Patters

Well, Democrats chose to steal the economic mantle from the Republicans after Reagan, though he cut taxes, also ran up record deficits (record, until Bush II that is). I think Democrats recognize that politically/strategically being known as fiscally prudent undercuts the Republicans who are all talk and little action.

Clinton lowered taxes on the poor and raised taxes for the wealthiest 1%. Taxes on the middle class were unchanged. But, Clinton also reduced the deficit by something like $500 billion. I think Democrats will stick with the Clinton formula since it's politically viable and works well for the economy.

As to the claim that rich people drive the economy, not "ordinary" people, I don't think that's true especially now that so much ordinary wealth is invested in retirement funds. In addition, ordinary people certainly spend a much higher percentage of their disposable income on products and services than the wealthy.

Do the poor get more from the system than the rich? Of course not. The system is what generates the wealth for the wealthy. If we had a different system, the wealthy might not be so wealthy. So, it makes sense that the wealthy should pay higher taxes. I say let the market determine taxes. If we raise taxes too much on the wealthy and it has a detrimental effect on the economy, then we can lower their taxes. The Republican idea of a flat tax is essentially socialist in that it's mandated by government policy, not driven by the market.

Real World

How does one person benefit more than another, if you don't mind me asking?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

By sales tax, do you mean a consumption tax on a federal level in place of income tax? If so, I'm very, very interesting in that concept myself.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

otis p. driftwood

Yes, the so called Fair Tax. I was more in favor of a flat Steve Forbes type of income tax, but wistah beat me down pretty good about the morality of taxing someone's blood and sweat.

My main worries with the Fair Tax are an underground economy and turning contractors into tax collectors--in effect making everyone part of the IRS.

But he said you guys already have to account for that sort of thing in Mass...and it's NBD, so I don't know.

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Real World

Sorry to whiz on your parade, but the national debt has gone up every year since the 50's. Furthermore, look around the world at the debt of developed nations, and notice how many of their graphs spike in the last 5-25 years. Why? Entitlement programs. Countries simply can't satisfy their thirst.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Where did you guys discuss this?

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897