For 9/11 Conspiracy Theorists - New England Patriots Forums

Wildo7 · 05-19-2008, 05:55 PM

Sorry, but I HAD to post this. Sums up pretty much how I feel about the conspiracy theories. I strongly suggest you read the whole thing, it's a very entertaining read.

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/85723/

Quote:

If Cheney & Co. Had Really Plotted the 9/11 Attacks ...

By Matt Taibbi, Spiegel & Grau. Posted May 19, 2008.

The following is an adapted excerpt from Matt Taibbi's new book, The Great Derangement" (Spiegel and Grau, 2008).

The 9/11 Truth movement is really distinguished by a kind of defiant unfamiliarity with the actual character of America's ruling class. In 9/11 lore the people who staff the White House, the security agencies, the Pentagon and groups like PNAC and the Council of Foreign Relations are imagined to be a monolithic, united class of dastardly, swashbuckling risk-takers with permanent hard-ons for Bourne Supremacy-style "false flag" and "black bag" operations, instead of the mundanely greedy, risk-averse, backstabbing, lawn-tending, half-clever suburban golfers they are in real life. It completely misunderstands the nature of American government -- fails to see that the old maxim about "the business of America is business" is absolutely true, that the federal government in this country is really just a lo-rent time-share property seasonally occupied by this or that clan of financial interests, each of which takes its 4-year turn at the helm tinkering with the tax laws and regulatory code and the rates at the Fed in the way it thinks will best keep the money train rolling.

The people who really run America don't send the likes of George Bush and Dick Cheney to the White House to cook up boat-rocking, maniacal world-domination plans and commit massive criminal conspiracies on live national television; they send them there to repeal PUCHA and dole out funds for the F-22 and pass energy bills with $14 billion tax breaks and slash fuel efficiency standards and do all the other **** that never makes the papers but keeps Wall Street and the country's corporate boardrooms happy. You don't elect politicians to commit crimes; you elect politicians to make your crimes legal. That is the whole purpose of the racket of government. Another other use of it would be a terrible investment, and the financial class in this country didn't get to where it is by betting on the ability of a president whose lips move when he reads to blow up two Manhattan skyscrapers in broad daylight without getting caught.

But according to 9/11 Truth lore, the financial patrons of democratic government were game for exactly that sort of gamble. According to the movement, the Powers That Be in the year 2000 spent $200 million electing George Bush and Dick Cheney because they were insufficiently impressed with the docility of the American population. What was needed, apparently, was a mass distraction, a gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy. The same people who had managed in the 2000 election to sell billionaire petro-royalist George Bush as an ordinary down-to-earth ranch hand apparently so completely lacked confidence in their own propaganda skills that they resorted to ordering a mass murder on American soil as a way of cajoling America to go to war against a second-rate tyrant like Saddam Hussein. As if getting America to support going to war even against innocent countries had ever been hard before!

The truly sad thing about the 9/11 Truth movement is that it's based upon the wildly erroneous proposition that our leaders would ever be frightened enough of public opinion to feel the need to pull off this kind of stunt before acting in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq. At its heart, 9/11 Truth is a conceit, a narcissistic pipe dream for a dingbat, sheeplike population that is pleased to imagine itself dangerous and ungovernable. Rather than admit to their own powerlessness and irrelevance, or admit that they've spent the last fifty years or so electing leaders who openly handed their tax money to business cronies and golfed in Scotland while middle America's jobs were being sent overseas, the adherents to 9/11 Truth instead flatter themselves with fantasies about a ruling class obsessed with keeping the terrible truth from the watchful, exacting eye of The People.

Wildo7 · 05-19-2008, 05:57 PM

Another snippet:

Quote:

Cheney: Gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads.

Kristol: (whispering to Feith) I love it when we stand at a crossroads!

Feith: (giggling) Me, too. But I never know what to wear.

Cheney: Do you *******s mind?

Kristol: Sorry, Dick.

Feith: Me, too.

Cheney: Okay. (Clears throat). As I was saying, gentlemen, we stand at a crossroads ...

Kristol: (in Bill Murray-esque fashion, mimicking suspense-movie soundtrack) Dunh-dunh-dunh!

Feith: Dunh-dunh-dunh! Dunh ... duh-duh-dunh!

Cheney: Oh, for ****'s sake.

Kristol: (laughing) Okay, seriously, Dick, I'm sorry.

Feith: (still laughing) Duh-duh-duh ... .

Kristol: Shhh!

Feith: Okay, okay. (to Cheney) No, it's okay, Dick, you can go on.

Cheney: You're sure? No more jokes to make? Guys want to do your goddamn Katherine Hepburn impersonations or something?

Kristol: (Channeling "On Golden Pond") Come on, Norman! Hurry up! The loons, the loons!

Feith: (whispering) Shut up, for Christ's sake! (to Cheney) Our lips are sealed, Dick. Honest.

Cheney: Okay. Jesus. As I was saying ... we, uh, stand at a crossroads. (Pauses warily, continues). As we head into the next millenium, America is the world's preeminent military and economic power, but the ground is not exactly solid beneath us. We are the inheritors of a great historical mantle, gentlemen, the rulers of the world's energy supply and therefore the rulers of world commerce. It is a mantle we inherited from the British, who rose to world power on a bed of coal, who in turn inherited it from the Dutch, who put a chokehold on Europe with their fleet of whaling ships. Our turn began when a discovery was made a little place called Oil Creek near Titusville, Pennsylvania in 1859 ...

***maverick4*** · 05-19-2008, 06:29 PM

Look up Operation Northwood.

It isn't a massive conspiracy as that writer mocks, someone really wanted to get into Iraq really bad and start reshaping the Middle East, for oil and for Israel.

***PressCoverage*** · 05-19-2008, 06:33 PM

Taibbi is a decent writer, and I've enjoyed his appearances on the Maher show. However, he displays a basic ignorance -- or willful distortion -- of 9/11 Truth, and never seems to dispute the specifics in his writings. "9/11 Truth" is a fractured movement, basically divided into two camps: 1) Made it happen on purpose, and 2) Let it happen on purpose. They are quite opposed to eachother, yet the former pollutes the movement as a whole.

He's essentially saying "there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy because these neocons can't see past their own wallet" and "it would be too easy to conjure support for a war; murder wasn't necessary." Well, Matt. That's an incredible leap in logic for dismissal. A "gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy" was EXACTLY what was needed. You don't get Congressional support for unilateral occupation of a nation of 30 million unless 9/11 and Anthrax and plane crashes of the only progressive Senator is fresh in the minds of voting lawmakers. Sorry. It's right there in the PNAC, it's right there in Brzezinski's "Chess Board," and the precedent has been set at Northwoods and Tonkin. So please don't insult our intelligence by pretending this cabal wasn't capable of destroying a $500 billion financial center for the acquisition of $ trillions in crude oil and corporate infrastructure.

Taibbi never refutes NORAD's stand down, multiple war game simulations on both 9/11 and the London bombings, refusal to release Pentagon video, FBI/CIA suppression of specific warnings, Mike Vreeland's note, no wreckage at the Pentagon, the controlled and white-washed Kean Commission, and on and on and on and on and on... Instead, he relies on a "use common sense" ploy of ostricization and shame, such that we've seen time and time again, but does nothing to refute the facts of what happened that day and the weeks leading up.

Holy Diver · 05-19-2008, 06:42 PM

I believe that 9-11 was an inside job....

having said that....

The greatest piece of evidence that I have ever heard on this subject comes from satire. Its the one thing that makes me say...Hmmmmm...maybe the Bush administration WASN'T behind 9-11:

"Do you know how I know that the Bush administration is NOT behind 9-11?"

"How?"

"Because it WORKED!"

-Bill Maher

***IcyPatriot*** · 05-19-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

Taibbi is a decent writer, and I've enjoyed his appearances on the Maher show. However, he displays a basic ignorance -- or willful distortion -- of 9/11 Truth, and never seems to dispute the specifics in his writings. "9/11 Truth" is a fractured movement, basically divided into two camps: 1) Made it happen on purpose, and 2) Let it happen on purpose. They are quite opposed to eachother, yet the former pollutes the movement as a whole.

He's essentially saying "there couldn't possibly be a conspiracy because these neocons can't see past their own wallet" and "it would be too easy to conjure support for a war; murder wasn't necessary." Well, Matt. That's an incredible leap in logic for dismissal. A "gruesome mass murder that would whip the American population into a war frenzy" was EXACTLY what was needed. You don't get Congressional support for unilateral occupation of a nation of 30 million unless 9/11 and Anthrax and plane crashes of the only progressive Senator is fresh in the minds of voting lawmakers. Sorry. It's right there in the PNAC, it's right there in Brzezinski's "Chess Board," and the precedent has been set at Northwoods and Tonkin. So please don't insult our intelligence by pretending this cabal wasn't capable of destroying a $500 billion financial center for the acquisition of $ trillions in crude oil and corporate infrastructure.

Taibbi never refutes NORAD's stand down, multiple war game simulations on both 9/11 and the London bombings, refusal to release Pentagon video, FBI/CIA suppression of specific warnings, Mike Vreeland's note, no wreckage at the Pentagon, the controlled and white-washed Kean Commission, and on and on and on and on and on... Instead, he relies on a "use common sense" ploy of ostricization and shame, such that we've seen time and time again, but does nothing to refute the facts of what happened that day and the weeks leading up.

Good take PC ... well said.

Wildo7 · 05-19-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick4

Look up Operation Northwood.

It isn't a massive conspiracy as that writer mocks, someone really wanted to get into Iraq really bad and start reshaping the Middle East, for oil and for Israel.

I don't think he disagrees with what you say. PNAC wanted to get into Iraq and control the world's energy resources to stem the rise of China, I certainly don't disagree with that.

And yes PC, he does conflate the different conspiracy movements, but they have chosen to fly under one banner, so I think his generalizations are ok. The government did not CAUSE 9/11, and as you say, that is a far cry from the notion that they may have let it happen. BUT 9/11 Truth is riddled with nutbags who mostly think that it was an inside job IMO and they undermine legitimate dissent and the anti-war movement by trivializing the dialog.

Holy Diver · 05-19-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F.B.N.

Good take PC ... well said.

agreed....

the piece that was suggested that I read the whole thing, contains no evidence or facts. Its opinion. Take my paragraph below as a point that is just as good, or better.

The main reason I became a 9-11 skeptic, was because the #s and evidence DIDN'T match up. Because the explanation has so many holes and coincidneces. Buildings falling in their own footprint, and inept military response, flying the bin laden family and the saudis out of the country, steal buildings melting with low burning jet fuel for weeks. The BBC reporting building 7 going down while you can see building 7 still standing in the background. The lack of video evidence from the pentagon..........it really goes on and on. Could it be the questions, or just a rabbithole effect, man I don't know. But I mostly believe that this was orchestrated by our own government because of the aftermath.

Jundullah!

If the evidence that 19 hijackers working for Bin Laden and acting alone was so good.....why are there still so many questions? And why isn't Bin Laden wanted by the FBI for this crime?

OH...and tossing around the term...."conspiracy theory" ....?????

If you believe the official story, you believe in a CONSPIRACY THEORY....dummy!

***PressCoverage*** · 05-19-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildo7

I don't think he disagrees with what you say. PNAC wanted to get into Iraq and control the world's energy resources to stem the rise of China, I certainly don't disagree with that.

And yes PC, he does conflate the different conspiracy movements, but they have chosen to fly under one banner, so I think his generalizations are ok.

I don't believe they have chosen to fly under one banner at all. The Michael Rupperts of the world have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from the Loose Change crowd.

otis p. driftwood · 05-19-2008, 09:41 PM

And me out of popcorn. Oh well...carry on anyway, gents!

Nice post, Wildo!