Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race - New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard
Men's Apparel Jerseys Hats Novelties Throwback Women's Youth
 
REGISTER FOR PATSFANS.COM

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!


Go Back   New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard > Off Topic Forums > Political Discussion
Forgot Password? Join PatsFans.com!
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Arcade Mark Forums Read Chat Room

WELCOME TO OUR FORUM HERE AT PATSFANS.COM!
ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW

Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2008, 03:31 PM   #1
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
reflexblue's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Cup Cake
Posts: 16,530
Default Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

The Economists view of oil and politics. Congress wanted to sue opec over price fixing. Good luck.

Business.view
Bomb OPEC

May 6th 2008
From Economist.com
What’s the next dumb economic idea in this race?

THE race for the White House has been a depressing experience for anyone foolish enough to have hoped for a rational debate about economic policy. John McCain, who is at least in favour of free trade, admits to being an economic illiterate, while Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama have been united in their remorseless, largely baseless bashing of foreigners (especially the Chinese) and big business. Ordinary Americans may be the main beneficiaries of global capitalism, but it is more likely to be celebrated in Beijing than on America’s hustings.

The topic that best showcases the candidates' appalling economic cluelessness is the surge in oil prices. American drivers are now paying well over $3 for a gallon of fuel. Both Mr McCain and Mrs Clinton advocate a “gas-tax holiday” over the summer to ease the burden for drivers. Neither of them bother to let their supposed concern for the environment affect their pandering. They ought to delight in higher gas prices—indeed, they should be arguing vigorously for further increases to help wean Americans off their addiction to oil.
AP

Of course, none of the three candidates mentions to the American public that drivers in most European countries pay several times what Americans do for their petrol.

Mrs Clinton is typical of the three candidates in railing against everything from the American government’s ongoing purchases of oil for the country’s strategic reserve (even though no expert thinks these make more than a tiny difference to the oil price) to alleged manipulation of the price by energy traders.

True, Mrs Clinton may have greater expertise about trading than the typical politician, once having famously made a tidy profit during her brief, controversial foray into pork-belly futures. But most experts doubt that speculators have driven up the price to its record highs, while almost everyone agrees that the traditional forces of supply and demand (growing strongly, especially in the developing world) and the plunging dollar have played major roles.

Besides, even if traders are to blame, it is not obvious what an American president could do to stop it, given that oil is an integrated worldwide market with a price set globally.

The policy likely to appeal most to Congress, and proposed by both Mrs Clinton and Mr Obama, is to levy a “windfall tax” on oil-company profits to punish them for the high price of oil. No matter that this might simply be passed on to consumers in the form of even higher prices at the pump, there are several other reasons why most economists think windfall taxes are a bad idea.

At the margin, it would probably discourage oil companies from investing in expanding supply—something that, all things being equal, would help to lower oil prices. The last time America tried a windfall tax, in 1980, it generated far less revenue than expected (though that would not necessarily be the case this time) and required the creation of a vast bureaucracy with mountains of red tape.

Mrs Clinton’s other policy solution is more logical, though completely impractical. One reason the oil price is so high is the existence of a cartel run by the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC). Unfortunately, breaking up that cartel is easier said than done.

Mrs Clinton, in a rare moment of enthusiasm for the institutions governing the global trading system, suggests action by the World Trade Organisation. But it has jurisdiction over only a handful of OPEC members, and has so far given no indication that it can impose antitrust rules on what is, after all, a cartel made up of sovereign governments.

Over the years, various attempts to sue OPEC have been made under American antitrust law. In 2007, even Congress voted to sue OPEC for engaging in a “price fixing conspiracy” that has “unfairly driven up the price” of crude oil and, in turn gasoline.

This lawsuit would also have removed sovereign immunity that protects the governments in OPEC from prosecution or having their assets seized as punishment. The trouble is, even if OPEC were found guilty of antitrust abuses in an American court, how would the cartel actually be punished or broken up?

Ultimately, there is no way to secure compliance with America’s courts short of military action, which is one reason why even the Bush administration opposed last year’s Congressional vote. But, if oil prices continue to rise and the election race remains close, how long before one of the presidential candidates proposes bombing OPEC, even though there could be no surer way to send oil prices soaring to new highs?

Back to top ^^
Readers' comments
__________________
S.H.E.S.
I Likes Spikes.
reflexblue is offline   Reply With Quote
FEATURED ADVERTISEMENT
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!

Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account
including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.

NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98

Updated 07/08/11

Help Us Reach Our Goal!

Old 05-07-2008, 04:57 PM   #2
In the Starting Line-up
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,422
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by reflexblue View Post
The Economists view of oil and politics. Congress wanted to sue opec over price fixing. Good luck.
It would be funny if it wasn't OUR congress that thought about that. Ah, stupidity...

At any rate, that was a good read, it shows how the pols are trying to score votes by passing legislation that more than likely will have no effect on oil prices. Seems like every issue nowadays (and maybe its always been this way, I don't know) is about scoring political points rather than actually trying to solve anything. Yuck.
Stokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 04:58 PM   #3
Moderator
 

Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 22,068
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Congress is trying to avoid blame but doing nothing to solve the problem.
__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
patsfan13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 05:04 PM   #4
In the Starting Line-up
 

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,422
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsfan13 View Post
Congress is trying to avoid blame but doing nothing to solve the problem.
Yep, and that's the basic political answer to everything, cover your behind, and try and make the other guy look bad.
Stokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 05:31 PM   #5
PatsFans.com Supporter
 
reflexblue's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: East Cup Cake
Posts: 16,530
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stokes View Post
It would be funny if it wasn't OUR congress that thought about that. Ah, stupidity...

At any rate, that was a good read, it shows how the pols are trying to score votes by passing legislation that more than likely will have no effect on oil prices. Seems like every issue nowadays (and maybe its always been this way, I don't know) is about scoring political points rather than actually trying to solve anything. Yuck.
Just as they are full of sound and fury to impress the public, and like you said cover their collective azz's.

I wonder what court this case would be heard in?
__________________
S.H.E.S.
I Likes Spikes.
reflexblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 06:33 PM   #6
----> Iron Mod <----
 
IcyPatriot's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 31,482
My Mood: Sad
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

The best next war would be a war to inflate the dollar ... which will in turn ease oil prices short term ... long term ... and I go back to the 70's I'm tired of all the new energy talk ... we have done about 10% of what we are capable in that area since then.
IcyPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 06:51 PM   #7
Banned
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 8,608
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.B.N. View Post
The best next war would be a war to inflate the dollar ... which will in turn ease oil prices short term ... long term ... and I go back to the 70's I'm tired of all the new energy talk ... we have done about 10% of what we are capable in that area since then.
Energy dictates currency. Not the other way around.
PressCoverage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 07:37 PM   #8
----> Iron Mod <----
 
IcyPatriot's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 31,482
My Mood: Sad
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by PressCoverage View Post
Energy dictates currency. Not the other way around.

That's why it needs to be a war ... we're getting abused ... the world is getting abused by the current system.

Value oil in dollars ... we lose.

Value oil in Euros .. we lose.

What's next ... the Yen?

My blood pressure is rising
How we get screwed so much ... time to go play Far Cry ...
IcyPatriot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2008, 07:51 PM   #9
All Pro Poster
 
wistahpatsfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,607
Default Re: Bomb Opec, The Next Dumb Idea in the Race

Quote:
Originally Posted by F.B.N. View Post
That's why it needs to be a war ... we're getting abused ... the world is getting abused by the current system.

Value oil in dollars ... we lose.

Value oil in Euros .. we lose.

What's next ... the Yen?

My blood pressure is rising
How we get screwed so much ... time to go play Far Cry ...

It could be worse........




__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
wistahpatsfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sponsored Links



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

© Copyright 2000-2012. PatsFans.com Is a Partner of USA TODAY Sports Digital Properties.
The opinions posted in this forum do not necessarily reflect the opinions of our staff at PatsFans.com or USA Today.
We are not affiliated with the New England Patriots™ or the NFL™. The Photo Used In the header was taken by Ian Logue.

This site is owned and operated by I&K Internet Design Enterprises, LLC