Iraq implodes as Shia fights Shia - Page 6 - New England Patriots Forums

***otis p. driftwood*** · #51 03-28-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeTedWilliams

How long is it going to be until we find out that NEM has been fiananced by the Terrorists, just like the Democrats in COngress?

This made me laugh.

Stokes · #52 03-28-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEM

Yes, it was totally unexpected. They expected a quick attack, control, and not much of a ground war. This has completely altered their plans, but make no mistake, they are still controlling George W. Bush to make the right decisions, FOR THEM.

And, it was Daddy Bush that set it all up, from the beginning, making sure that the right people were around little Georgy, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowitz, Armitage, Rumsfeld, all sent by Daddy to make sure Georgy did what they wanted to do.

I think we've talked about this before, but I would argue that rather than it being his father setting those guys up with him (pulling the strings as it were), I think these were people he met during his dad's administration that he found himself agreeing with idealogically. Remember, he is much more of a party idealogue than his father. So, when he got into office he surrounded himself with these people. The difference between Bush 41 and 43 is that 41 was a moderating influence on the policies of these guys, whereas Bush 43 promotes essentially the same agenda that they have. I know you like the idea of the PNAC telling him what to do, I just think its much more likely that he shares their vision for how best to protect America's interests going forward. In other words, there's no need for him to be "controlled" by anyone, he likes these ideas and promotes them because HE wants to. At any rate, I know where you stand, just thought I'd present an alternative hypothesis for you to think over.

***otis p. driftwood*** · #53 03-28-2008, 12:17 PM

If this was what Bush the Elder had wanted, he could've used his huge resevoir of political capital and destroyed Saddam at the time.
That he was such a coward is part of the reason he was a one termer.

Stokes · #54 03-28-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEM

GWB has not got the mental capacity to comprehend the actual reasons for PNAC. He is a simple minded person that was triggered by revenge for Saddam Hussein. He does, and says, what he is triggered to do.

Go back to the days BEFORE the election of 2000. It was his father that told him to send Dick Cheney out to find the VP candidate, and Cheney came back saying he found the perfect candidate, HIMSELF.

I have always believed that it was set up that way, by the elder Bush (CIA Knowledge) that by putting Cheney in as VP, and then the rest of the crowd that followed, they had the perfect control to put the PNAC into motion.

And,that is why Jim Baker was sent to make sure that Florida was turned in favor of GWB. Baker has always been the one that spoke for, and got the Bush family out of deep crapola, time and time again. A very close, personal friend of Daddy Bush.

And, dont forget, Baker was sent again, in the 2nd term, to estabiish a committee ( I dont remember the exact details, but do remember that Jim Baker was the one to put it together) on a vital issue.

PNAC, along with, CLEAN BREAK, is, and has been, the driving force behind all that has happened in the past seven plus years.

Even if you wanted to keep with the "simple minded" thing, consider that the ideas behind clean break and PNAC are not complicated ones, and W's management style is to leave the details to others. Thus, he could be in total agreement with the ideology of the PNAC, and have these guys that are members taking care of the details. This again wouldn't mean that he was any kind of puppet of the PNAC, just that he agrees with them.

***otis p. driftwood*** · #55 03-28-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEM

Had he done that, he would have lost the coalition, the backing of the Muslim forces, and the backing of the world. He was limited by the United Nations which was, for all intents and purposes, in charge of the invasion.

But, at least he DID accomplish one thing during his time in Washington, DC, he was able to be part of the group that furnished Saddam with all those nice chemical and biological weapons.

And that is why he made sure that Junior did not try Saddam in an international court, or he would have been implicated as an accessory before the fact.

So your contention is that Bush the Elder wanted to get rid of Saddam, but didn't take the opportunity at the time of the first Gulf War, when he had an approval rating of over 90% and American troops on the ground under the command of American generals (not the UN), instead he waited, biding his time until he could get his son elected, at which point he made his son go and get Saddam?

That's really your position? You're going to stick with it? Do you see why people find it hard to take you seriously sometimes?

I mean, no offense meant, but that's simply crazy. When the sun rises in the morning do you spend hours looking for the guy with the rope?

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