GOP ties poor job numbers to tax breaks....wait, what? - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

The Brandon Five · 07-08-2011, 03:39 PM

Meanwhile, next door the Canadian economy is adding jobs. Were tax cuts the key? Apparently not. Somehow they were able to grow the economy even though they removed the key ingredient of "stimulus":

Northern Exposure | Hoover Institution

Quote:

[Since 1993], Canada’s federal debt has fallen from almost 70 percent to only 29 percent of GDP. Moreover, every year between 1997 and 2008, Canada’s federal government had a budget surplus. …
About 85 cents of every dollar of deficit reduction was achieved with spending cuts. Beyond that, the government didn’t pull every politician’s favorite trick of cutting just the growth rate of government spending. It cut absolute spending on many programs in dollar terms. … Because of the years of spending cuts, federal spending on programs–that is, all spending except for interest on the federal debt–fell from a high of 17.5 percent of GDP in 1992-93 to 11.3 percent in 2000-01.

Canada's bright jobs data clouded by U.S. gloom - Yahoo! News

Quote:

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's economy created a surprisingly high number of jobs in June, but dismal U.S. data and lack of wage inflation may mean the central bank keeps its foot on the accelerator for a while longer with low rates.

Net employment gains in the month totaled 28,400, Statistics Canada said on Friday, compared with the 15,000 expected by markets. The transport and warehousing industry did the most hiring and overall gains were mostly in part-time and public sector jobs.

The unemployment rate held steady at 7.4 percent as more people entered the labor market.

The job market has been stronger than expected for three straight months now, good news for an economy that is seen to have slumped in the second quarter but may regain momentum in the second half of the year.

***patsfan13*** · 07-08-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Diver

Thats something I'd say 99% of americans agree with.

Why are most conservatives (and the president for some dumb reason) siding with 1% of the population?

If you and I pick up the slack for multi-nationals and billionaires, when do we say enough is enough?

Flat Tax! everyone pays 25% EVERYONE. If corporations want to be treated as human beings, let them be taxed as such.
eliminate Tax on anything "Made in the USA"
make election day a national holiday

lets start there.

See Steve Forbes conservatives do support a Flat fair Tax code. For Forbes the rate that promoted growth and maximized revenues was 17%. This would have a personal exemption and nothing else (iifc ~13k per person). Corporate taxes would be 17% also (bye bye lobbyist) and of course he wouldn't subsidize businesses. The stockholders would no capital gains. This way business profits would be taxed once at the source not subject to multiple taxation.

If this sort of system were put in place businesses from around the world would be lining up to do business here and good jobs would be made available for American workers without lawyers/pols trying to do things they are not capable of like deciding which technologies will be important.

***patsfan13*** · 07-08-2011, 07:34 PM

President Obozo today proclaimed the jobs report today was good and proof the economy is turning the corner.

President Obama on Job Numbers: 'We Are Turning the Corner' - Political Punch

Quote:

“Today is an encouraging day. We learned that the economy actually produced a substantial number of jobs instead of losing a substantial number of jobs,” he said. “We are turning the corner.”

Turning the corner? More like going off the cliff.
Totally over his head, totally lost.

Perhaps when he spoke of shovel ready when peddling the stimulus bill perhaps he meant the shovel was to bury the economy.

chicowalker · 07-08-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

See Steve Forbes conservatives do support a Flat fair Tax code. For Forbes the rate that promoted growth and maximized revenues was 17%. ...

Do you happen to know what kind of tax revenue a 17% rate would produce currently? (I realize there are arguments that it would generate an increased tax base, through at least a couple means, but that's a question for another day given the assumptions involved.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

...This would have a personal exemption and nothing else (iifc ~13k per person). ....

Unfortunately a personal exemption is the first step towards all sorts of fiddling around like we have today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

......Corporate taxes would be 17% also (bye bye lobbyist) and of course he wouldn't subsidize businesses. The stockholders would no capital gains. This way business profits would be taxed once at the source not subject to multiple taxation...

Are you sure about this -- why wouldn't there be a capital gains tax? Capital gains should be treated the same as ordinary income, unless we want to continue that fiddling around I referred to above.

Dividends, otoh, shouldn't be taxed if the company has already been taxed on its earnings.

***patsfan13*** · 07-08-2011, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicowalker

Do you happen to know what kind of tax revenue a 17% rate would produce currently? (I realize there are arguments that it would generate an increased tax base, through at least a couple means, but that's a question for another day given the assumptions involved.)

.

17% would generate far more than we are currently generating because employment would be far higher and the economy would be far larger.

To simplify 17% say of 1 trillion (of taxable income) would be 170B, 20% (historic level of revenue as a % of GDP) of 800B 160B. Then project and extra couple of GDP growth over say a 5 year period and the difference would be very large.

The Brandon Five · 07-09-2011, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

17% would generate far more than we are currently generating because employment would be far higher and the economy would be far larger.

To simplify 17% say of 1 trillion (of taxable income) would be 170B, 20% (historic level of revenue as a % of GDP) of 800B 160B. Then project and extra couple of GDP growth over say a 5 year period and the difference would be very large.

I think the Fair Tax used a flat rate of 23%. Does anyone have a good estimate of actual national income (i.e. not "reported" income)? I believe it included an exemption on the first $30k of income.

PatriotsReign · 07-09-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holy Diver

Flat Tax! everyone pays 25% EVERYONE. If corporations want to be treated as human beings, let them be taxed as such.
eliminate Tax on anything "Made in the USA"
make election day a national holiday

lets start there.

Now THAT is a GREAT idea HD!!

How about if we employ a flat tax, we get rid of ALL forms of hidden taxes as well? Things like sales tax, internet tax, hotel tax, ad infinitum? Maybe we'd have to go a little higher on the flat tax, but let's stop the crap with a million forms of hidden taxes.

Because if we get rid of all these other forms of taxes, Americans can SPEND MORE on them!

I've written many, many times that if we only knew how much we pay in TOTAL taxes, we'd quickly realize just how burdened we are with taxation.

Titus Pullo · 07-09-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatriotsReign

How about if we ...

How bout if we cut the ****ing defense budget in half?

Crazy thought, I know. But the Pentagon got a nice raise again this year from the GOP House, the only government entity to receive such. Shocking. Meanwhile, we have states shutting down, amid an unprecedented era of "austerity" measures. Such priorities.

Cut defense, and all this "tax" goofiness becomes moot. And the rich can keep their money.

Cons can't have everything. They can't starve the poor, privatize every sector, hoard their money AND justify bloated defense spending.

The Brandon Five · 07-09-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

How bout if we cut the ****ing defense budget in half?

Crazy thought, I know. But the Pentagon got a nice raise again this year from the GOP House, the only government entity to receive such. Shocking. Meanwhile, we have states shutting down, amid an unprecedented era of "austerity" measures. Such priorities.

Cut defense, and all this "tax" goofiness becomes moot. And the rich can keep their money.

Cons can't have everything. They can't starve the poor, privatize every sector, hoard their money AND justify bloated defense spending.

Do we really need three more aircraft carriers?

Let Germany and South Korea defend themselves.

BSR · 07-10-2011, 10:56 AM

I think there are plenty of conservatives that would be fine with cuts to the defense budget. I know I am.