Boston Boxer

oh wistah...i think you are stiring the pot.

i dont post here much, so i like to respect peoples opinion. i have been to Iraq many times and i just state what i think is right. I do not think we are winning anything. How do you determine a winner in this whole thing anyway? I would say that the only way we "win" this war is to have Iraq stand up a GOV and actually run their own country without relying on U.S. $$$ and military.

if someones Marine friend or family member has just come back and said "we are winning", then that is their opinion and they have a right to that opinion. I do not need to belittle anyone or resort to name calling to state my opinion, so i dont know why mr Fog does it. IMO, it brings down the forum and turns it into a circus

PressCoverage

mainly because we don't believe a word he says any more... simple, really...

he earned it...

wistahpatsfan

It's what I do.
Good luck, homeboy.

sdaniels7114

Even if things became as stable as in Korea, just how many of those types of deployments can we or should we support for the next 50 or 100 years? The idea that we'll end up with nothing but a few embassy guards in Iraq in the next few decades is laughable IMO.

For all intents and purposes Iraq is the 51st state and that ain't changing anytime soon. Keep in mind that this 'state's' citizens will never contribute a dime in taxes and will they ever be a drain on resources.

Fogbuster

So, what's the answer?? Just cut them loose, and bring everybody back home?? Because that's the only other option besides what Bush is doing. We are training people to take over the government and run the government as fast as we can. If somebody has a specific alternative plan, let's hear it. So far, all I hear is "Change!! Change!! Change!!!" but no one single specific plan that is different from Bush's plan.

So, let's hear the alternatives.




//

__________________
"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."

Boston Boxer

my plan would be to build an amusement park and maybe a mall...like the mall of America. Something like the Baghdad Funplex or something. that would really unite the country IMO

Real World

They already have an amusement park in Baghdad.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

wistahpatsfan

Alternative to what?
What is Bush doing?
The answer IMO is cut them loose and bring them all home. I thought republicans were in favor of self-reliance and against welfare? Iraq is the biggest welfare state on the planet. Meanwhile, neocon punks want to cut off American families and kids and pump more money into Iraq. Which is it? Will the real Republican Party please step forward?

PressCoverage

why not? that's what Reagan did... who knows how many soldiers' lives the GOP godfather saved by cutting and running 25 years ago... he certainly didn't deplete our Army or Marines, nor bankrupt the nation in an endless quagmire initiated by fraud, that's for sure...

unfortuately, it's not sticking, and never has... see, the people there hate eachother, and are sitting on their hands until their occupiers get the hell out... besides one farce of an election, little-to-zero gains have been made in 4 years for creating a government... regardless of WH spin...

the surge was designed to give the Iraqi government breathing space for reconciliation and, so far, there has been little of that.... there is no oil law; there have been no provincial elections. ...


that's 15 of 18 benchmarks NOT met... of course, the Bush League was warned, but it's too pig-headed to listen...

please... we heard the same baseless squawking from the Reich Wing two years ago when they went on and on about the myth that the Dems "have no platform.... show me their platform!!"... oops, national health care... but you guys wouldn't listen, and here we are...

as for your last falsehood that no one has presented a specific plan regarding change in the disaster that is Iraq, perhaps you're either not paying attention, or being willfully ignorant... they all did, a year ago... and haven't waivered since:

Hillary: Introduces the Iraq Troop Reduction & Protection Act of 2007

Obama: Offers Plan to Stop Escalation of Iraq War, Begin Phased Redeployment of Troops

Edwards: Lays Out Comprehensive Proposal To Enact His Plan For Iraq

notice the theme... "stop escalation, redeploy, troop reduction, no blank check for Iraq"...

but then, i'm sure in a month you'll squawk the same nonsense again, pretending as if you never received the memo... it's what you do...

Wildo7

So a supposed decrease in unnecessary deaths means we should support the lower number of unnecessary deaths? I believe these deaths are still unnecessary.