emoney_33

Feds Issue Threat: No Fly Zone for Texas? – Tenth Amendment Center

Here's to Texas, don't back down!

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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

chicowalker

I don't agree with you, emoney. These aren't random searches of unsuspecting citizens.

Once can think that a patdown goes too far, but the idea that it is the same as a search without probably cause protected by the 4th amendment goes way too far.

By that logic, isn't a metal detector and x-ray at the airport also a search?

And why limit it to airports? Is it a violation to require any form of security screening at government buildings and courthouses? Police stations? Prisons? State legislatures? The White House and other Federal government buildings?

This reminds me of Peter King (R-NY) calling for no firearms zones around legislators. (Presumably he was in favor of gun rights.) I wonder what kind of screening is required at the Texas State House, etc. -- wherever the pols who initiated and are supporting the TX law have their offices.

Real World

I'm all for security but what we have now is somewhat absurd.

For example : Really?

YouTube - ‪Police State 6-Year-Old-Girl Searched and Groped by TSA‬‏

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Mrs.PatsFanInVa

It's also hard to claim you're being "forced into" anything when, in all reality, if you're that dead set against any kind of search, you can simply choose not to fly. Nobody makes anyone enter an airport as far as I know.

My rights are only violated if I had absolutely no choice in the matter. Anyone who buys a plane ticket instead of a bus ticket or a train ticket has made their choice....and they know the consequences.

I wonder how worried people would be about getting on a plane if there were no security measures in place?

I figure, you get to choose your poison - am I going to be afraid for 10 minutes standing in line that I'm going to be singled out for a pat-down or do I worry for 10 hours on a transatlantic flight that someone's carrying a bomb hidden in the shoe they no longer had to remove?

emoney_33

Sorry but you are absolutely wrong, it is exactly random searches of American men, women and children. The acceptance of it by Americans is disgusting.

For one that's a false dichotomy, no one ever advocated "NO" security measures. Secondly, it's NOT increasing your safety. Random searches do absolutely NOTHING to increase your safety. 0, zilch, nada. It's just moving towards a police state. It's ridiculous. Oh sorry, no flying for you unless you get frisked up and down, and maybe your child too.

It's absolutely disgusting that people accept this. America needs to wake up and realize this is not right, this is driven by bogus FUD. Wake up people, the TSA, the Patriot ACT, the Protect IP act... The government is trending toward fascism and a police state. This is not America.

"Don't fly" is a copout. You see what RW posted, you aren't any safer after that.

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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

chicowalker

You've got to do better than that.

Have you ever been stopped on the street by a TSA agent and frisked? Had them come into your home for no reason? Of course not.

So if you want to address anything I brought up in my post, let's hear it. Otherwise all you're saying is "I'm right and you're wrong," which, frankly, is the territory of other folks on this board, not you.

emoney_33

Not yet, but what's that matter? "First they came for the..."

If you are in American society, 40+ hour work week, 2-4 weeks vacation, you want/need to travel to the other side of the country or to another country, then flying is really your only true option. Air travel is privately owned companies providing a service to the people. Random searches do nothing for security. Having your genitals touched is sexual assault and it's downright criminal to say that the government may not let you use a private service if you don't allow someone to frisk you or your child. Which involves sticking their finger in your underwear lining as well as grazing your private parts. There is not even probable cause, and it's oppressive. Plus it's only the first step, they'll be making it into subways soon.

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There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who do not.

Harry Boy

It kills me to say this "Chico is right".

We now know without a doubt that we have an enemy that wants to kill us, what should we do to try and prevent them from killing us,.

It kills me to say this "Mrs Pats is also right" if trying to protect you when you fly bothers you, Don't Fly, I want all passengers searched that I am flying with and I don't give a ***** about their Civil Liberties, 15 Muslims were the cause of this now we have to live with it the best we can, I would go even further PROFILE, IF THE PROFILEE DOESN'T LIKE IT, TOUGH *****, LET THEM TAKE THE BUS.

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

chicowalker

It matters because they are saying this is protected by the 4th Amendment.

The argument that you proceed to make below comes under the heading of what I alluded to in my post: "...Once can think that a patdown goes too far, but the idea that it is the same as a search without probably cause protected by the 4th amendment goes way too far..."


Air travel isn't simply private owned.

Airplanes and airlines are privately owned. The air absolutely is not. Neither are most airports. The private owners also do not own the land above wich they fly, obviously.

There are very clear public interests here that go well beyond the private ownership of the airplanes and airlines.

Now, as I already alluded to above and in my prior post, if you want to say that our current searches are inappropriate, ineffective, etc., that's perfectly fair. I would largely agree with you.

But I don't think they're unconstitutional, any more than I think it is unconstitutional to prevent a passenger from carrying a handgun onto a jet or into a federal building.

If you really do think this is unconstitutional, please explain why other forms of searches before boarding an airline are not unconstitutional.

Harry Boy

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself