weswelker#83

When people have to work harder for the same or less payoff, it's NOT a sign that the middle class is thriving .

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2...tm_medium=link

IcyPatriot

This is John Edwards biggest issue in his campaign and why he is my #1 candidate above McCain, Hillary and romney. It boils down to America is producing less and less every year ... importing more than exporting. Many were very high on the conservative ideas of free trade. The concept itself wasn't bad ... the result has been horrendous as America cannot compete with countries with few labor laws and uncivilized working conditions.

Edwards knows it's a long haul but he also knows if something is not done the gap between the haves and have nots will grow. The problem is confounded by an idiot President Bush who has increased our deficit which relies on these foreign countries for $$$. Very hard to talk tough trade talk when you need to have investment $$$ from China ... they then turn that into an 80% monopoly of America's toy market. Imagine how many have nots would live better if that was at least 50/50? Enough to employ many say in New england that has suffered the worst from lost manufacturing.

Stokes

In that quote it says public education isn't the issue, then in the next sentence says part of the problem for cities is the funding for schools leaving. To me, education is and will be key. I like to see funds that are redistributed go towards child and adult education to create more qualified candidates for the jobs we will have going forward, rather than a straight handout. Its also important to note that redistribution of weath is already happening, with that old figure of the top 1% paying 35% of the taxes. The bigger issue is how should that money be spent.

I hear a lot about the shrinking middle class, what is the evidence of that? I'm not saying its not happening, but does anybody have some good data showing that to be the case?

Also, besides education, what are other ways we can ensure prosperity for the lower class without just giving them money? In other words how to we best help the lower class pull themselves out of poverty?

BelichickFan

We all want the lower and middle class to do well. But it's a world economy now and the genie is out of the bottle. Sure we could shut down all imports from China/India, wherever, or put massive tariffs on them - and there's an argument to be made for that - but then prices would skyrocket. It's a problem but there's no easy solution and it's not a Republican or Democrat thing. Who was NAFTA started under ?

patsfan13

Don't know about republicans, but I have a fairly good understanding of conservatives. Dems/libs depend on class envy and categories of designated victim groups of their power. They NEED people on distress so they are dependent on government, and by extension libs who espouse the big government programs of the mommy state. Conservatives (not necessarily pubbies) would rather see EVERYONE prosper so they wouldn't need government programs and by extension need as many tax dollars from their fellow citizens.


Libs have a vested interest in the failure of others, without the poor there would be no need for the legion of government workers who administer the social programs (and consuming much of the money allegedly going to the designated victims). WIthout the poor there would be no need to beg politicans for the money of the middle (and upper) class.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

IcyPatriot

BINGO !!! I was a raving lunatic during the NAFTA debate. Oh, I could see the greed and stock market part just fine. How anyone thought a unionized America was going to compete with Mexicans is anyones guess.

Anyone who has ever stopped in a bar for a beer after work can relate to this. It was common in the 70's and 80's for a worker to stop in for a beer on a Thursday or Friday after work. Many of them would have their check cashed by the owner ... buy a round or whatever and then stay or leave.

That described above rarely happens anymore because most of the manufacturing has gone south from New England and the country. The middle class demise is directly related to the fact we do not produce per capita what we used to ... Mexico, China, Japan ... etc ... they do.

Patters

Here's a liberal version of the nonsense you posted.

Don't know about Democrats, but I have a fairly good understanding of liberals. Republicans/conservatives depend on avarice and protecting the white landed elite. They NEED people of great wealth so they can exploit everyone else, and by extension conservatives espouse small government so that they can let the wealthy run the country. Liberals (not necessarily Dems) would rather see EVERYONE prosper so there could be effective government programs for the truly needy and kids.

Conservatives have a vested interest in the failure of others; without the poor there would be no source of cheap labor so the rich could pump up their wealth and buy big summer houses that they don't even use. Without the poor, they fear they would see their wealth decline, and then need to beg government for more corporate bailouts, government purchazses, and corporate tax loopholes than are currently provided. [/QUOTE]

patsfan13

Why "exploit" anybody? People with money in their pocdets make better customers. They also don't consume the tax dollars of their fellow citizens a win-win proposition, There is nothing about poverty that helps anyone who is rich (which I by the way an not, unfortunatly).



Cheap Labor??/ I guess you missed out on the information economy and industrial automation, Patters you need to move past the worn out Industrial age class warfare rhetoric of Marx and give the present a try..


Thanks for articulating how clueless libs are in their world view however.

__________________
"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Patters

Yeah, I agree, people with money in their pockets make better customers. So, let's have a good minimum wage law, low cost health care, and other programs so people can have more money in their pockets. Unlike you, I'm not worried about the wealthy. Even if we reinstate Eisenhowers 90% tax rate on the rich, the rich will still do well. You'll be able to sleep okay, or you can set up a charity to help them.

I guess you missed the whole business argument for illegal immigration. You need to read up on the basic reason why people like Bush support an amnesty. And, by the way, there are zillions of jobs that are not part of the the information economy. Did you ever go shopping, hire a cleaning person, have work done on your home, get your trash removed, etc.? And it has nothing to do with Karl Marx, absolutely nothing; that's 1950s Red scare crap, and I think it's laughable that you even brought it up.

No, thank you.

jack

That was hilarious