Saul Alinsky - Obama - Hillary - Who can be more Alinsky? - New England Patriots Forums

***IcyPatriot*** · 01-18-2008, 09:35 AM

All you need to know about the battle between the 2 is contained in the life and works of Saul Alinsky. Where Hillary ... the rich white girl studied and did her thesis on Alinsky, Obama lived the Alinsky life and is therefore is looked upon more favorably in urban America than Hillary.

Anyways ... so many links I think it's best anyone interested just type in Alinsky, Obama and Clinton.

http://community.handsnet.org/index....sky&oldid=1397

Quote:

In the 1930s, Alinsky organized the Back of the Yards neighborhood in Chicago (made famous by Upton Sinclair's novel The Jungle on the horrific working conditions in the Union Stock Yards). He went on to found the Industrial Areas Foundation while organizing the Woodlawn neighborhood, which trained leftist organizers and assisted in the founding of community organizations around the country. In Rules for Radicals (his final work, published one year before his death), he addressed the 1960s generation of leftist radicals, outlining his views on organizing for mass power. The documentary, "The Democratic Promise: Saul Alinsky and His Legacy," claims that "Alinsky championed new ways to organize the poor and powerless that created a backyard revolution in cities across America."

Alinsky was the subject of Hillary Rodham's senior honors thesis at Wellesley College, "There Is Only The Fight...": An Analysis of the Alinsky Model. Rodham commented on Alinsky's "charm," but rejected grassroots community organizing as outdated. Once Hillary Rodham Clinton became First Lady of the United States, the thesis was suppressed by the White House for fear of being associated too closely with Alinsky's ideas.
Alinsky also had a significant influence on Barack Obama, who is a United States Senator and candidate for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination. Obama particularly used Alinsky's techniques while participating in Chicago community organizations in the 1980s.

http://ajliebling.blogspot.com/2007/...in-common.html

Quote:

What Clinton and Obama Have in Common

In coming months, voters will be judging Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. What will they make of their youthful intersections with one of the fascinating figures of twentieth-century American politics, Saul Alinsky?

A grass-roots organizer of the poor who used radical means to work within the system, Alinsky was a puzzle to ideologues of both the right and left.

In 1970, Time Magazine concluded, “It is not too much to argue that American democracy is being altered by Alinsky’s ideas. In an age of dissolving political labels, he is a radical--but not in the usual sense, and he is certainly a long way removed from New Left extremists.”

The year before, a Wellesley student, Hillary Rodham, had spent time a good deal of time interviewing him as the subject of her senior thesis.

Seventeen years later, a Columbia University graduate, Barack Obama, took a $13,000-a-year job in the Chicago organization Alinsky had founded.

Hillary Rodham’s thesis gave him a mixed review, conceding that Alinsky was “a born organizer” and “a man of exceptional charm” in “a peculiarly American tradition” but ultimately judging him unable to create larger social change. She was “tempted” but declined his offer of a job and went on to law school.

In 1985, Obama began three years of community organizing, getting residents to agitate for improvements such as better trash removal, playgrounds for their kids and removing asbestos from public housing. The he too decided to go to law school.

In announcing his candidacy, Obama said that, in those neighborhoods, he had “received the best education I ever had” and “learned the true meaning of my Christian faith.”

What Clinton and Obama had in common, a generation apart, was youthful idealism looking for a way to express itself in the larger world. Despite his radical methods, Alinsky believed in working through the system. “Compromise,” he said, “is a noble word that sums up democracy.”

Now as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama face the ultimate test of democracy, they can expect their early years to be the target of sliming. The producer of the swift-boat attack ads is salivating over the prospect of showing John McCain as a POW and superimposing phrases from the Wellesley thesis.

To deal with that kind of distortion, Clinton and Obama will have to show a toughness Alinsky doubted that people like them have. “A liberal,” he liked to say, “is someone who walks out of the room when the argument turns into a fight.”

What’s at stake in 2008 is worth fighting for.

***IcyPatriot*** · 01-19-2008, 04:34 PM

This crap is boring but it is real huge you know ... hugely huge.

Hugely huger huge.

This will play huge in the coming month and especially if Obama is the nominee.

Like I said HUGE!!!

Not even 1 response to this hugeness?

Not even a wise crack?

Nothing?

Fogbuster · 01-19-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEM

Is an Alinsky anything like a Lewinski?

Nah, he was a Marxist of the "God is dead" mold, like so many of the "Beat Generation". You know, all those guys who burned out in the 50s, 60s and 70s: James Dean, Abbie Hoffman, the Weathermen, the SDS, etc. The Hard Left types. Bad News Bears.

//

***IcyPatriot*** · 01-19-2008, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Nah, he was a Marxist of the "God is dead" mold, like so many of the "Beat Generation". You know, all those guys who burned out in the 50s, 60s and 70s: James Dean, Abbie Hoffman, the Weathermen, the SDS, etc. The Hard Left types. Bad News Bears.

//

Any of those old hippie types on your island Harry?

Patti37 · 02-21-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Nah, he was a Marxist of the "God is dead" mold, like so many of the "Beat Generation". You know, all those guys who burned out in the 50s, 60s and 70s: James Dean, Abbie Hoffman, the Weathermen, the SDS, etc. The Hard Left types. Bad News Bears.

//

Imagine my surprise when I was searching for information on Obama's connection to community activitism and Saul Alinksy and clinked on a link that directed me to this site.

If that is what you think Saul Alinsky was then you are sadly mistaken. I have been very active in an community activist organization in Massachusetts out of the Alinsky school.

His motto was "never do for people what they can do for themselves...never."

He taught people how to take charge of their communities and achieve positive change. Most people sit around and say you can't change this or you can't change that....city hall never listens to anyone. Alinsky taught people how to affect change. Because of his teachings, people got off their a$$es and become active. You may not believe it is possible but I have seen it happen...I have participated in it.

And you say he is of the "God is Dead" mold...many of the organizations that follow his teachings and attend the IAF Institute are church based organizations. Many of these "Saul Alinsky" type organizations are faith based.

***patsfan13*** · 02-21-2008, 01:28 AM

Then there Mr. Obama's communist mentor:

Quote:

In his books, Obama admits attending "socialist conferences" and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a "hard-core academic Marxist," which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.

However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."

The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.

Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that "Frank" was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.

then there is the activities at his Houston campaign office where they are rpoudly displaying a Cuban communist flag with the image of Che on it.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/d-s-hub...ag-issue-obama

Guess it's not suprising he had the most extreme leftist voting record in the Senate.

***IcyPatriot*** · 02-21-2008, 01:35 AM

I am happy this thread has been reborn ... it's actually a very good topic. Should Obama go on to win the election this topic will be part of political college courses for a long time. Some of it is boring but I found it quite fascinating and I learned some things I never knew before. I knew Obama was involved but I never knew Hillary was and how she branched off of Alinsky and Obama stayed on course ... and he is winning so who learned and listened or rather who listened and learned. Obama is an excellant listener and Hillary is not. Bill clinton is a good listener and he won also.

Fogbuster · 02-21-2008, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patti37

Imagine my surprise when I was searching for information on Obama's connection to community activitism and Saul Alinksy and clinked on a link that directed me to this site.

If that is what you think Saul Alinsky was then you are sadly mistaken. I have been very active in an community activist organization in Massachusetts out of the Alinsky school.

His motto was "never do for people what they can do for themselves...never."

He taught people how to take charge of their communities and achieve positive change. Most people sit around and say you can't change this or you can't change that....city hall never listens to anyone. Alinsky taught people how to affect change. Because of his teachings, people got off their a$$es and become active. You may not believe it is possible but I have seen it happen...I have participated in it.

And you say he is of the "God is Dead" mold...many of the organizations that follow his teachings and attend the IAF Institute are church based organizations. Many of these "Saul Alinsky" type organizations are faith based.

Unfortunately, many of the "mainline Christian" denominations follow more Marx than Jesus. The accept divorce without a fight; they accept pre-marital sex and same-sex relationships without a whimper; they think "government" has the answers yet are loath to seek out solutions in prayer or their own original minds. The Episcopal Church in New Hampshire even ordained as their bishop an openly practicing same-sex man (divorced from his wife and children). Saul Alinsky would approve of these kinds of things, and so do Hillary and probably Obama, too. Very, very sad, indeed.

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Patti37 · 02-22-2008, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Unfortunately, many of the "mainline Christian" denominations follow more Marx than Jesus. The accept divorce without a fight; they accept pre-marital sex and same-sex relationships without a whimper; they think "government" has the answers yet are loath to seek out solutions in prayer or their own original minds. The Episcopal Church in New Hampshire even ordained as their bishop an openly practicing same-sex man (divorced from his wife and children). Saul Alinsky would approve of these kinds of things, and so do Hillary and probably Obama, too. Very, very sad, indeed.

//

Well that would not be correct about the ones that I was involved in and the similar organizations that I was intimately familiar with...and I assure that they did not think government had the answers. Actually it was quite the opposite. Prayer was not the answer. The answers were found in the people who lived in the community and from there creative solutions were found to achieve results.

That has been my actual experience from being involved in such organizations.

Fogbuster · 02-22-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patti37

Well that would not be correct about the ones that I was involved in and the similar organizations that I was intimately familiar with...and I assure that they did not think government had the answers. Actually it was quite the opposite. Prayer was not the answer. The answers were found in the people who lived in the community and from there creative solutions were found to achieve results.

That has been my actual experience from being involved in such organizations.

Can you give an example of what kinds of solutions to what kind of issues to which you refer?

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