STFarmy

This is why I just never quite find myself on board with the ACLU.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080116/...s/craig_appeal

Patters

Well, I don't support them because they defend awful people, but I do agree that what Craig did was tacky but certainly should not have been illegal. That said, as a homophobic, right-winger, I'm glad he's caught in his web of lies and hypocrisy.

Harry Boy

Patters,
I started another thread on this before I had my wine and coffee this morning, didn't see this one......

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

wistahpatsfan

All consentual sex behind closed doors is private. Trouble is, in a public john, it can get a bit cramped. Rape and molestation is illegal no matter where it happens.

Real World

I think the ACLU is doing it's typical dance around the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law, while totally ignoring common sense. Sure, anyone in a stall dropping a deuce is entitled to their privacy. I don't think anyone here disputes that. The problem with the ACLU's position here is that it's a public bathroom. If a couple goes into the bathroom, and starts fooling around in a stall, is that therefore protected by privacy? Remember that children use these public restrooms, and therefore lewd acts are not tolerated. In Craig's case, he was more than likely soliciting some play, but my beef is with arresting somebody for moving their fingers and setting their feet wide. I'd like to think it takes a little more than that to arrest someone. I openly admit that I am totally in the dark about how those types of deals work, the underground sex in the mens room stuff, but it just seems like there's considerable room for reasonable doubt.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Fogbuster

How to play it "safe", RW.




//

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"All that is required for evil to triumph is for good to do nothing."

Patters

I agree with you, but I do see the ACLU's point based on this paragraph:

"The ACLU filed a brief Tuesday supporting Craig. It cited a Minnesota Supreme Court ruling 38 years ago that found that people who have sex in closed stalls in public restrooms 'have a reasonable expectation of privacy.'"

If the MN Supreme Court made that ruling, then maybe Craig does have a case. But I don't see why the ACLU should concern itself with that argument. It's more a technical argument. Or does the ACLU believe that people should be allowed to have sex in public bathrooms? Does that mean that those bathrooms should therefore be co-ed so as not to discriminate? This is what annoys me about the ACLU -- they do an enormous amount of good, but every now and then they take on really strange issues. They should leave Larry Craig's defense to his lawyers and not be involved.

Real World

Well, I'd like to know what "closed stalls" means. Some stalls are entirely enclosed, some are not, while some public bathrooms are single units like a you'd have at home. I'd be hard pressed to think that a bathroom at Gillette, where you can see the persons feet from the urinal, and can hear him pass gas as he drops anchor, would be privacy protected for a couple engaging in sexual intercourse. If this is the case the ACLU wants to make, then what they're saying is that two losers fukcing in a stall at the game have the right to do so, and that you, and you're 12 year old son, trying to use the john, can't say squat.

Yeah, if destroying America is an enormous amount of good, then they're great!

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

Check out some of their key cases. I think even you would agree with many, if not most of them:

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur59.htm

Harry Boy

When I was in the seventh grade our teacher had an open front desk I used to keep dropping hings on the floor so I could look up her dress, she usually wore green silk underwear, in the winter she used to wear brown woolen snuggies, I was 19 years old at the time, she's dead now.

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself