Patters

chicowalker

it would be interesting to see a comparison that takes into account differences in income. (I realize that's a different comparison, just occurred to me that it might be interesting to see differences in states / regions when income is removed as a variable)

DropKickFlutie

This graph is confusing. I thought red America were the experts on foreign policy?

Seriously though, the animosity towards the U.N. from red country makes a lot more sense now.

The Brandon Five

The rebels in Libya might have similar animosity now that their dithering has given Gaddafi time to crush them.

Patters

Actually, I don't think anyone is sure the rebels were better than Qadaffi. That's the problem.

Nikolai

Chico makes an important point. I think income is a big part of the picture here. However, while we can say that people in Mississippi don't travel because they lack the disposable income, and not out of lack of desire, the end result is still a lack of traveling on their part.

Here's where I am drawing the line on this thread.

Who is more worldly? The people who travel to Canada, Mexican resorts, Rome, Paris, and Switzerland, or the people who served in Afghanistan and Iraq? I'm sure people will have their own answers according to their world view.

It's worth noting that "Red staters" make up a a highly disproportionate number of those serving in the military, particularly in regard to infantry duty (I'll try and dig up the Army numbers). They may not have experienced what it is like to drink fine wine in a French bistro, but they know a thing or two about what goes on in America's many wars.

Also, I am going to laugh heartily at the notion that traveling to a country makes someone more of an expert than someone who spent six hours researching the country on Wikipedia and Google. Most of these passport people are not really "seeing the world", but either going to Canada or Mexico (look at the passport numbers in the border states, esp. Alaska and California) or are going to an insulated resort.

Living in a foreign country is what really counts. Patters, as someone who lived in Sweden, you of all people should know that.

__________________
We get what we deserve.

------------------
“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

Nikolai

That didn't stop the DNI from being murdered in the press for daring to suggest that Qaddhafi would prevail.

__________________
We get what we deserve.

------------------
“On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson..they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.”

The Brandon Five

Are we sure that the people of Libya feel that way?

Patters

I'm sure there are some troops who get to do some real sightseeing and visits museums and cultural institutions and hang out with the people, but they are more often in places like Germany, not Afghanistan and Iraq.

Yes, soldiers know a lot about war.

Living in a foreign country is what really counts. Patters, as someone who lived in Sweden, you of all people should know that.[/QUOTE]

I think anyone who spends time sightseeing in another country tends to develop greater respect and less fear of foreigners. While visiting exotic places is important, even if one only goes to Mexican resorts and Montreal, they will grow more comfortable with the world. I would not be surprised if a lot of those Americans without passports are not only afraid of foreigners, but are afraid to visit the big American cities.

Patters

It's all very vague, but there's concern that some of the rebels were Al Qaeda types. I personally think anyone is better than Qadaffi, so am rooting for the rebels. At the same time, I recognize the possibility that there are people worse than Qadaffi, just as there were people worse than Mussolini and Stalin in WWII.