PatsFanInEaglesLand

My beef with unions is that they protect the lazy 5% at the expense of the hard working 95%. Also many unions donate dues to political causes and candidates that 50% of the members would never vote for or support.

Stokes

I think a big part of it is that unions have gone from something necessary to protect the rights and well being of workers to a system that ensures rewards despite the quality of the work done, the amount of work done, or the performance of the company. Incompetent people become entrenched in the system and are impossible to get rid of, while mediocrity is rewarded. Plus many unions tell their members how to vote in elections, sometimes pressuring them to make sure they vote according to the union's wishes.

STFarmy

That's a much better way of putting it then I did. Thanks.

QuiGon

I have no problem with men working hard and men working hard for more money... but one of my biggest gripes with the way this state is run is Massachusetts is one of the only states (if not the only state) where it is mandated to have police details at road worksites instead of just regular flagmen. So that's a *****load of unnecessary OT for the officers at the expense of Joe Taxpayer. And before anyone talks about how much safer they are, there have been studies done showing that uniformed officers are no safer than regular flagmen.

Real World

The problem is that the average salary of a Boston cop is $83,000+. When you add that to the perks and bennies, you get a massive fleecing. I don't mean to pick on your post, it's just that your response was what most people typically say about teachers, fireman, and police officers when it comes to a contract and pay. I have no problems with paying those people an honest a good wage, but what we see now is a fleecing. Think about it, the pop increases, with the tax burden, and the police force shrinks, while it's costs skyrocket. Something is terribly broken. If you're going to have retarded laws like details, then you shouldn't be averaging $83k an officer. You should pay them $45k, and let them make the difference with OT and details. They not only get it both ways, but they get upside down and on top.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

mtbykr

Very well said!

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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits". - Albert Einstein

mtbykr

I think we are on the same page...my main point was just let's not kill the guys who want to work extra to better themselves. I'm not living in Mass so it's tough for me to say what would be an appropriate base salary. (i have friends that are LEO's down here that make $30k) I just think it's important to keep open the possibility for extra income if the LEO's choose to work extra and better themselves.

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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits". - Albert Einstein

Harry Boy

They sure do.
I was a working Teamster for 42 years, during the 1970's I lost my job due to Ted Kenendy's deregulation and had to start all over again building my seniority and vacation time with another company.

Several months after losing my job Uncle Teddy visited our union hall on a Sunday morning in Charlestown Mass, Uncle Teddy was going to give us one of his little rousing bull***** speeches where he bellows and spits all over anybody within ten feet of him.
When this rotten bastard walked onto the stage he recieved a standing ovation from all but a few of us who could think for ourselves, Teddy was looking for something, he was looking for votes for another democrat who was running for something, our President and our business agents and Uncle Teddy wern't asking us for our vote they were Telling us who to vote for, WELL THEY WERN'T TELLING ME, we all had a chance to stand up and speak if we wished, I stood up and looked Ted Kennedy right in the face and said "Your Deregulation Put Me Out Of The Best Job I Ever Had And I Almost Lost My Home Because Of It" I then turned to my president and business agents and said "when I close the curtain behind me I vote for who the hell I want to"

I worked with a guy that believed the Democratic Party was his "Church" and that Ted Kennedy was his God, he couldn't believe that I would talk like that to his beloved Kennedy.

For all the years I worked with this guyI never liked him and he never liked me, today was the day, for years we both knew that some day we would have it out, we Fought for almost two hours in the street in Sullivan Sq before it was broken up by the union officials and the Boston Cops. In Later years we worked together again in the old Star Market Transportation Dept, we had a lot of respect for each other, he remained a democrat I didn't, he passed away three years ago, I went to his wake and his funeral and we are still friendly with his wife.

NEVER LET ANYBODY TELL YOU WHO TO VOTE FOR NOT THE UNION NOT YOUR WIFE AND NOT EVEN GOD IF YOU HAPPEN TO SPEAK WITH HIM, WE ARE STILL FREE WHEN IT COMES TO VOTING.

(Ted Kennedy visited our union hall many times back then)

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Harry Boy (Genius)

In The Absence Of Law And Order Society Will Surely Destroy Itself

Real World

Extra income and stuff is great. Everyone should have the opportunity to earn more. The problem is with the salary structure, and how cops get significant pay increases for college degrees that the department pays for, on top of forcing everyone to pay for a police detail at $40-50 an hour, in 4 hour minimum increments. I don't want to come across as insensitive, or anything, but averaging $83k in salary is alot. Take that average, and add in all the benefits, training, administration, equipement, insurance, etc.. and wonder what each officer costs the city. It's certainly more than $100k per. That means every 10 cops will cost you a minimum of $1 million. That's just crazy. Worse, they won't let you hire civilians to help ease the pain, and allow cities to put more police on the street.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

IcyPatriot

My neighbor is a cop ... one day we were talking and I asked him why is it that every time there is a trafiic jam you can be sure a cop is directing the traffic.

So we go back and forth for a few minutes and he says this to me.

"Police do not make nearly enough considering they put their life at risk everyday and we are definitely underpaid. Why is it that I can make double the money directing traffic that I can make getting shot at? I have to direct traffic and police events to support my family because getting shot at does not pay enough these days."

He's right ...