chicowalker

ah -- got it - -thanks

scout

Proven guilty? You mean like My Lai. Since you were a vet during that Viet Nam incident, and a self described "righty", would you like to tell us how the military courts found only one person guilty of mass murder. Then, tell us how much time he served.

PatsFanInVa

He didn't resign, he severed!

patsfan13

IMO all the officers involved should have been imprisoned for life and some executed. I think there was an effort to avoid having to implicate the generals who earlier covered up the atrocity.

The situation at Haditha had nothing to do with and in no way resembled My Lai. The reasons why have been demonstrated on this forum many times. i will mention one the person who claimed the soldiers murdered people was working with Al Queda in that area but presented himself as a journalist. There was a case of rape and murder the soldier was convicted and is rotting jail as he should.

Do you give soldiers the benefit of the doubt that is innocent until proven guilty or do you assume guilt of a soldier any time they are accused of anything?

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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."

Patriot_in_NY

Way to bring up a 40+ year old incident to buttress your argument against the military.

The Brandon Five

I'm not sure that having hearings rises to the level of "persecution".


Don't forget the Germans and Italians who were interned with them.

I didn't catch any of this, so I can't comment on the hearings themselves, but the one question that comes to my mind is: how do certain Muslims continue to misapprehend the teachings of the faith if this is not what it teaches? What is being done to prevent that within the Muslim community?

It is fine if you think that King and others are just idiot "islamophobes" for thinking there is a link between Islam and terrorism, but shouldn't we also try to convince the Osama bin Laden's of the world who clearly think that there is?

scout

I think war is an ugly necessity. I also give the soldiers a lot of latitude in what they have to deal with. I do not give them a free pass.

chicowalker

You may be right that it doesn't, but the hearings also can't be looked at as a solitary act.

King has made many statements against Muslims over the past decade, and many Americans have shown hostility toward the religion.

Even combined that may not equate to persecution, but it gets closer.


I'm curious why you make a point of this.

It's certainly true that Germans and Italians were also interned, so I'm not disputing that as a matter of fact.

However, the # of Germans interned was a tiny fraction of the number of Japanese. The # of Italians interned was a fraction of the # of Germans. Also, native born Americans of Italian or German descent were treated far more favorably than native born Japanese.

So, yes, Germans and Italians were also interned, but their treatment during the war really wasn't comparable beyond the surface.

(I'm not sure whether the assets of those interned was handled differently. Many Japanese lost everything they had. That may be because they had no relatives or friends in their communities to leave their assets with, but even if that's the case, it further demonstrates how much more unevenly the communities were treated)


Why do you think many "Christians" misapprehend Christ's teachings?

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note: We've had misunderstandings before due to tone being missed or inferred -- just to be clear, nothing here is meant to be hostile or snarky. I think you bring up some interesting points here, but I don't think I agree with them.

scout

I believe history repeats itself. I am an avid reader of history, particularly the presidency. I will always re-read the occurances in history and compare them to today. If we forget our past, then we are doomed to repeat it. In the case of My Lai, it was an injustice that no American paid the price for that massacre. It was tried in military court. If there is another court injustice in the last 40 years (Civil or Military) then I don't know of it. When there is an action which a soldier goes to court for a hearing I do not give the soldier the benefit of the doubt, nor do I automatically give the soldier his innocence because the court proclaims it.

The Brandon Five

Might have something to do with adherents worldwide expressing hostility towards America, no? "Death to America!" You know, the "Great Satan"?

I was just saying that it was even worse.


Firstly, I think that it is human nature to focus on the faults of others more than our own. I think that is why Jesus made it a point of emphasis:

Many Christians (as well as Muslims and those of other faiths) are focused externally (focused on the "immorality of others") instead of internally (focused on their own behavior). I think that leads to some messed up stuff that is clearly not in line with what he preached. They are often lead down that path by teachers/preachers who are more charismatic than they are insightful or spiritual. The Epistle of James warns those who teach that they are in a position of power and trust:

I assume that similar phenomena occur in the Muslim community. Are there teachings warning against these things? I don't know. But if we are not willing to ask these questions, will those inside the community have the courage to do so? Christianity, as you and others have rightly pointed out, has some reprehensible history. The criticism from those outside the faith who rightly challenged its followers to live up to its creed helped to correct those false teachings (and, hopefully, are continuing to do so).

As Mark Steyn has said, Saudi Arabia's top export is not petroleum, it's ideology. That ideology is not the only interpretation of Islam, but it is the one with the most funding and marketing behind it. There are mosques all over the non-Muslim world spreading the Wahabbi creed. I think it is foolish to think that this does not matter.

Are there seminaries all over the world teaching the Westboro Baptist Church interpretation of Christianity? (I'll spare you the suspense: the answer is no).

What is being taught in the Islamic schools that train imams? What do the prominent Islamic schools of jurisprudence teach about jihad? I hear people say that it simply means "struggle" (aside: so doesn't "mein kampf"). Can we get the schools and mosques to get the message out to al-Qaeda and others that they are simply confused?