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Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Why isn't the government all over this?
I think something happened the day after Rumsfeld's announcement....and we have been blowing through trillions on credit ever since.
makes you wonder....
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Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brandon Five
Maybe because this is a non-story?
From the article:
So that means the general assumption is that 7% of revenue is lost to fraud anywhere and everywhere? Is that the assumption underlying the $12 billion figure? If it happens everywhere, what is so surprising about it happening in Afghanistan?
It has credibility it is authored by.. you make my point, that as a society that we are completely desensitized to the continued fraud of the war profiteers.. perhaps for you it is no big deal. But for some, 12 Billion dollars can close a lot of gaps...
Congress seems more focused on the chickenshyt issues, than the really big issues.. the reality is as long as our tax dollars are supporting the lobbyists, and the palms of the politicians are getting greased nothing will be done.
Did you ever think about some of these companies who exist solely on government contracts, then use that money to influence congress.. not that anyone cares.
Quote:
Second Interim Report to Congress
Recommendations for Legislative and Policy Changes
Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Af ghanistan
A Bipartisan Congressional Commission
__________________ "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.
Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylS
It has credibility it is authored by.. you make my point, that as a society that we are completely desensitized to the continued fraud of the war profiteers.. perhaps for you it is no big deal. But for some, 12 Billion dollars can close a lot of gaps...
Congress seems more focused on the chickenshyt issues, than the really big issues.. the reality is as long as our tax dollars are supporting the lobbyists, and the palms of the politicians are getting greased nothing will be done.
Did you ever think about some of these companies who exist solely on government contracts, then use that money to influence congress.. not that anyone cares.
The report doesn't provide a complete citation for that "survey-based estimate", so it is hard to make any judgment about what it represents. Most of the content on the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners site requires membership for access so you can't read any of their surveys, but I did find this:
Quote:
According to research conducted by the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners (ACFE), U.S. organizations lose an estimated 7 percent of annual revenues to fraud. Based on the projected U.S. Gross Domestic Product for 2008, this percentage indicates a staggering estimate of losses around $994 billion among organizations, despite increased emphasis on anti-fraud controls and recent legislation to combat fraud.
The ACFE's Report to the Nation on Occupational Fraud & Abuse details the survey results of 959 Certified Fraud Examiners (CFEs) throughout the US who were asked to provide specific information on one fraud case he or she had personally investigated that met the following criteria:
* The case involved occupational fraud;
* The fraud occurred within the last two years;
* The investigation of the fraud was complete; and
* The CFE was reasonably sure that the perpetrator had been identified.
So the 7% figure is not based on audits of defense contractors, but represents their estimate of the frequency and cost of fraud nationwide (public and private sector).
In other words, no one has identified $12 billion in actual fraud...the figure is based on the assumption that every organization experiences that level of fraudulence.
Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brandon Five
The report doesn't provide a complete citation for that "survey-based estimate", so it is hard to make any judgment about what it represents. Most of the content on the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners site requires membership for access so you can't read any of their surveys, but I did find this:
So the 7% figure is not based on audits of defense contractors, but represents their estimate of the frequency and cost of fraud nationwide (public and private sector).
In other words, no one has identified $12 billion in actual fraud...the figure is based on the assumption that every organization experiences that level of fraudulence.
Without regard there is rampant fraud in afghanistan; from Karzai carrying around 53 million of US dollars, to the stolen fuel.. my point is made, is that somehow that this type of practice is acceptable.
The War Profiteers continue to get fat off of our dollar, and in reality congress deals with their own targeted issues, instead of the really big stuff.
If they put into effect standards that would eliminate any defense contactor who has been found to be committing fraud.. that might be a good step. Instead they fine the company, the company pays the fine with the money from their profit margin and do not miss a beat. Many of these companies rely solely on the US Government for cash flow, thus everything that they steal and have to repay via fines is all out of our tax dollar.
As a society there is no outrage, as we have come to expect this type of behavior amongst defense contractors.. even now some of these companies are moving abroad, avoiding their tax responsibility, and still getting defense contracts.
Unfortunately the lobbyists who are essentially paid by our tax dollar, continue to influence congress have done a very good job. Bernie Sanders has an interesting take...
At the request of U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders, an independent from Vermont, the Department of Defense compiled a report that identified 30 federal contractors convicted of fraud between 2007 and 2009; 91 that had been subjected to civil judgments over fraud claims; 120 companies that had settled claims over fraud; 43 firms that were suspended; and 164 that were outright disbarred from contracting.
Yet, incredibly, all continued to do business with the U.S. government.
According to Sanders, the Pentagon report documents more than $280 billion in federal contracts that went to 211 companies that already had civil judgments against them or had settled fraud charges of more than $1 million each
Most recently Boeing just got a huge contract for Air Force Tankers, despite committing fraud..
The U.S. Air Force's award of a $35 billion contract to build refueling tankers will bring about 100 jobs to North Carolina.
The contract award to defense contractor Boeing caps a years-long drama during which contracts were awarded, appealed and rescinded, while several executives receiving prison terms for criminal fraud
Congress does not care, as long as their pockets are lined with lobbying money and perks the beat will go on, and the shot callers in the Military Industrial Complex get richer and more powerful.
__________________ "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.
Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylS
Without regard there is rampant fraud in afghanistan; from Karzai carrying around 53 million of US dollars, to the stolen fuel.. my point is made, is that somehow that this type of practice is acceptable.
The War Profiteers continue to get fat off of our dollar, and in reality congress deals with their own targeted issues, instead of the really big stuff.
If they put into effect standards that would eliminate any defense contactor who has been found to be committing fraud.. that might be a good step. Instead they fine the company, the company pays the fine with the money from their profit margin and do not miss a beat. Many of these companies rely solely on the US Government for cash flow, thus everything that they steal and have to repay via fines is all out of our tax dollar.
As a society there is no outrage, as we have come to expect this type of behavior amongst defense contractors.. even now some of these companies are moving abroad, avoiding their tax responsibility, and still getting defense contracts.
Unfortunately the lobbyists who are essentially paid by our tax dollar, continue to influence congress have done a very good job. Bernie Sanders has an interesting take...
Congress does not care, as long as their pockets are lined with lobbying money and perks the beat will go on, and the shot callers in the Military Industrial Complex get richer and more powerful.
But if we are to believe that estimate fraud is endemic in every organization. Those who have been caught should be fined (no question), but I am not sure how the Pentagon can avoid doing business with Boeing.
Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Brandon Five
But if we are to believe that estimate fraud is endemic in every organization. Those who have been caught should be fined (no question), but I am not sure how the Pentagon can avoid doing business with Boeing.
The fact is that they do not even want to try, fraud is expected amongst the War Profiteers.. imagine if we were this tolerant for every organization who defrauded the government??
If Boeing defrauds the government, they should not be allowed to bid on or participate in any future contracts for a specific period of time.. if they do it twice they are banned forever. Someone will fill their shoes...
Is it to much to expect honesty???
This is one of the major reasons I find the Tea Party so hypocritical, they focus on chump change issues(driven by the corporatists) but ignore the greatest fraud committed on our government..
__________________ "Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.
Re: 12 Billion Dollars of Fraud in Afghanistan by Defense Contractors..
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