BelichickFan

And I don't touch entitlements yet.

I'm home with a sick kid so I looked up a few numbers to knock down the $1.5T or so deficit.

Eliminate Home Mortgage Deduction - $130B
Eliminate Department of Energy and Education - $100B
Reduce Department of Defense to 2008 levels - $200B
End Middle East Wars - $150B
End Bush tax cuts for rich - $80B
10% across board cut for Federal Employees - $100B
Close all foreign bases - $250B

Total = $1T. Which is about 2/3 of the deficit.

The rest can easily come from entitlements but I'm not going there. You can also make smaller cuts that make a difference now that the deficit is a mere $500B.

A few comments :

- On the Mortgage Deduction I would simultaneously eliminate property taxes which would balance that out for homeowners. This would end up being a tax increase as the states would have to raise sales or income tax to pay for the loss but so be it. This makes it simpler and fairer. It helps the federal disaster and the states can do what makes sense for them.

- DoEn is a failed department that was supposed to get us off foreign oil 30 years ago. Well done. DoEd is un-needed, states do education.

- Make the DoD cuts, let the Secretary of Defense decide what goes/stays.

- Wars and tax cuts for the rich I just used numbers from MSNBC. If the savings are too high then it's the Libs' fault for exaggerating them. As is, that's the savings.

- Cuts to Fed Emp was a guess based on google of # of employees * average salary.

All the numbers are estimates but I don't believe they're way off. I am a conservative and I'm slashing defense, stopping wars and closing bases. And raising taxes. But the deficit is immediately under control.

Now - entitlements HAVE to be cut because my cuts don't address their upcoming implosion. DarrylS said a few weeks back that entitlements are "a promise made". Yes but they're "a promise made that can't be kept", sorry. We can keep them but they're going to be cut / growth slowed. That's just how it is. But I don't want to get into medicare here because it'll turn into a health care debate again Bottom line, though, entitlements have to be flat lined in expenditures and divided up as fairly as possible as opposed to exponential growth.

Patters

Well, BF I think if you and I were at the negotiating table, you'd have put forward a good starting point. Ending the wars, ending the tax cut for the rich, closing foreign bases, cutting the military I can pretty much agree on.

On the other things, I think I'd have some more issues. I'm not opposed to ending the mortgage deduction, but the fact is you couldn't tell the states how to handle their property taxes. The Dept. of Energy I'm not against reworking, but I do think that the feds need to continue to invest in alternative energy or we need significant legislation to get the entrenched energy powers to embrace alternative energy. I also think that education should be treated as part of the national agenda in terms of American self interest and survival, but there's probably room for cuts.

At any rate, your proposal is a good start.

BelichickFan

Abolish it as is and you can spend as needed on specific projects. It's too big and bloated like all departments. If you want to spend some on a specific "Manhattan Project" style program to get us off oil, great, but it should be smaller, more direct and have a specific end point to answer to.

On the property tax thing, you are right that the states would have to decide how to pay for that and could keep the status quo but it's completely unfair that only property owners have to pay for the services (largely schools) that property tax pays for. Replacing it with a sales tax is much more equitable.

BelichickFan

That's not much of a negotiation, btw, you just accepted all the Liberal desires and gave me nothing back. That's not going to get it done. You need a serious bone to throw out there.

Patters

I'm willing to negotiate on the other matters. For instance, I think your point about replacing the energy department with a manhattan project is a good one. Also, cutting fed salaries and eliminating the home mortgage deduction are not exactly liberal positions.

The problem I think is that we need to raise taxes on the wealthy even more than you propose as part of a final solution. It's my strong belief that tax dollars ultimately end up in the pockets of major corporations and in turn benefit shareholders. The wealthy among us have more to gain from the federal budget than most of us, and therein lies the rationale for them paying higher taxes.

I would propose a more progressive tax structure, and in return cutting federal wages by 10% and shifting all government employees, including troops, to a 401k type retirement plan (though of course providing additional benefits for those injured during service).

Real World

Which is a prime example of why none of this would ever happen. Everyone is open to closing, cutting, and eliminating the stuff they don't like, but when you want to do the same to one of my personal favs....well....

While I wouldn't eliminate a Dept of Ed, I do wonder why we have one, and that we do, why does it spend $50 Billion? States should, and do run their own educations systems. Now imagine if we took 10-20% of that $50 billion and used it to give tuition vouchers to parents who wanted to send their kids to private school. Wouldn't that be money better spent?

Good luck eliminating property tax. It's the single largest source of "revenue" for cities and towns. Not happening.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
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BelichickFan

Rule #1 of my budget - if you don't know why we have something then it gets cut. Completely.

I want to Eliminate and Replace, not a straight elimination. Replace it with increased Sales or Income tax. Why are property owners the only ones paying for schools ? Do those who live in apartments not have kids ?

The Brandon Five

Word.

The tax for people in apartments is paid by their landlord, who in turn passes that cost on to his tenants by charging rent.

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BelichickFan

That's too indirect, just get rid of the property tax and replace it with something everyone can see.

Triple-T

I agree with everything here except the mortgage tax deduction. Getting people to buy and own homes builds better communities. It is the one investment that everyone should make if they can not only for themselves but for their neighbors as well. I'd slash everything else as much as possible.

As for entitlements, the promise made originally was that if you live past your life expectancy, the government will help. Just start raising (incrementally over time) the benefits age to be comparable to the starting point and all troubles fade away.

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