Turk

It is going to be a bumpy ride, for those of us who actually believe in what our type of democracy stands for. Funny thing is, while European, Asian, Middle-Eastern media is all over this, I see next to nothing coming out of our mass media outlets.

Cable Viewer

wistahpatsfan

Another gem of a post from Turk.

Thanks, man. Looks great but I'll have to wait until tonight to play with this link. Can't wait.

And you're right. The government/corporate run media will not be talking about this. What's good about this is that the assumption of anonymity is no longer solid, and people will have to communicate in person from now on. People crack me up when they rely on technology to keep them safe!

Good to hear from the Turk, as usual. Keep us updated on the pending water wars in the Middle East.

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chicowalker

I'm pretty sure this was the headline story on the front page of the journal yesterday, and it sounds like the NY Times covered extensively as well. Are other papers and news outlets ignoring it somehow?

As far as "It is going to be a bumpy ride, for those of us who actually believe in what our type of democracy stands for," I don't think that's the case, at least not exactly. Those of us who believe in the ideals of our nation and democracy, but are realistic about the flaws that our leaders have always had in betraying those ideals, won't find this a particularly bumpy ride. otoh, those who ignore the missteps we've always had as a nation may find this a bit bumpy. (More likely, though, I'm guessing they'll go into some kind of defense mode to preserve their idealistic worldview, either through denial or attack, maybe both.)

IcyPatriot

The old one ...

"of the people, for the people, and by the people" is finally seriously getting exposed as it should be.

Real World

This was the top story on BOR last night, and the on the Times front page, as well as the headline on Drudge. Maybe the OP watches NBC or CBS and they're not reporting this. I dunno.

I'm mixed on the leaks. I'm part ok with it because it reveals the true ideology, or genuine beliefs of those in power. That brings obvious risks and repurcussions, but it does provide a level of involultary transparency never seen in our lifetime. At the same time, I almost want the Assange guy and anyone helping him assasinated (not really, but arrested and locked up at least) because the release of these documents will undoubtedly cost American lives, and hurt this country. Plus, while we all want as much transarency as possible, there is a need for secrecy. Leaders have to be able to offer opinions, or discuss actions without the fear of them being made public. I don't want Obama, his generals, and his cabinet sitting behind closed doors, discussing important issues and actions, worried about what the public might think about what they say there. I want all options being discussed in such situations, without fear for what people might think.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Ilikehappyppl

Information will set us free. If you thought your government and leaders where sunshine and rainbows then your an idiot, you should not be allowed to vote or own a gun.

I say keep the leaks coming and great job! If it costs a few lives then so be it, have too break a few eggs to make an omelet. None of the info surprised me at all, I knew we played by the same rules as the world does, nobody stands for anything anymore.

We will lie,cheat,kill,steal,frame whatever it takes, its the American WAY BABY! Don't that make you proud? your the same as the rest of the world......

PatriotsReign

I'm not shy....I'll fully admit I'm looking forward to reading about Assange mysteriously being "clipped". That's the risk he knows he's taking by committing espionage (which he is). The man is knowingly accepting secret documents that put America and Americans at risk.

I wish him very bad fortune.

chicowalker

RW, I agree with everything you said.

The thing with Assange, imo, is that he's just the "fall guy" here, mainly because he's the public face.

The real outrage, to the extent any exists, should be directed at whomever is leaking this information and, to a lesser extent, at anybody whose failings in setting up security on our systems permitted these leaks.

As for the actual information leaked, I have mixed views. The only thing I really have an issue with is specific information that could put our troops and other personnel in harm's way. While other information, such as personal insults of other nations' leaders, could expose Americans to greater danger, I don't think I'm upset by the possibility that some foreign national or government will take offense and overreact -- in the end I think I put that on whomever commits the acts.

PatriotsReign

He's definately not a fall-guy Chico. If you or I accept US gov't secrets from anyone, then we can be charged with espionage for that act. If we share that information, then we are even more guilty of espionage.

Look up the text of our laws on espionage and you'll see this guy is guilty. The nice thing is that this law allows us to go after him no matter where he lives.

Real World

Yeah, I would only disagree with calling Assange a fall-guy in this. He's one of the main players. He's choosing to do this with the understanding of all it entails. He's villain (or hero depending on your POV) #1 or #2 in this. He's the "face" of the leaks for sure, but not a fall-guy.

I care about the personal insults only because it could create some bad blood, and less cooperations between some leaders an governments moving forward, but I'm not overly concerned by them. I find them quite enlightening in a sense. Like I said before, I'm mixed on this. I do enjoy getting an unfiltered look at the inner mind, and inner workings of the people in power.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897