Will We Reach This Point - Page 5 - New England Patriots Forums

chicowalker · 10-24-2010, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Excuse me, but you said you've "never heard" of people getting upset at the phrase "Merry Christmas." I gave you an example of such a thing. I could easily come up with many more if I wanted. Now you're trying to qualify your remarks (and doing a pretty lame job of it) since I proved you wrong.
Don't hate the playa, hate the game. It's your own fault your statements are being proved incorrect.

Those people aren't upset at the greeting, they're upset by the use of public resources as what they view as an endorsement of religion.

I thought that was a simple distinction you'd be able to grasp. I gave you too much credit.

chicowalker · 10-24-2010, 12:50 PM

You finally got it!

There's also what another poster alluded to -- there are multiple holidays, even for Christians. If I see a friend before one of us goes away before Christmas, I'm likely to wish them Happy Holidays -- meaning both Christmas and New Years. I've always assumed that was pretty common. And if they get upset by that, you know what? They're as*holes.

btw, your other stuff in this post was pretty funny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Boy

I have to admit Mr & Mrs put up a pretty convincing argument in the defense of "Happy Holidays"

Being who I am this is how I would have handled Mr & Mrs waiter who kept wishing them a Merry Christmas were I a Jew.

Waiter "hello, merry christmas"
Harry "f-ck you"

All kidding aside when I was working we had a few Jews working with us we were all pretty close as we had been working with each other for years, they would always say each year "we're going up to The White Mountains sking to get away from all this Jesus *****"

My solution to "Merry Christmas" if I were a Jew would simply be this,

Christian "hello, merry christmas"
Me "i'm a jew"

chicowalker · 10-24-2010, 12:55 PM

PatsFan: if it was the first case, he wasn't going to learn anything. If he didn't pick up on your many hints during the meal, he's not going to pick it up from the check and low tip -- I'm sure he just chalked it up to you being cheap. (problem is, a guy like that, if you actually address it explicitly, is also likely to chalk it up to you being a jerk, not to anything on his part)

***Wolfpack*** · 10-24-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicowalker

Those people aren't upset at the greeting, they're upset by the use of public resources as what they view as an endorsement of religion.

I thought that was a simple distinction you'd be able to grasp. I gave you too much credit.

Too bad you're not smart enough to realize how stupid you sound here. "Those people aren't offended by 'Merry Christmas' they just don't want anyone to be allowed to say it and they want all the signs taken down and they want it to be forbidden language in public buildings. Oh, but no they're not offended!"

But don't worry, I didn't "give you too much credit." I knew you weren't smart enough to realize how stupid your own argument sounds.

***Wolfpack*** · 10-24-2010, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

It is not the government's job to promote any one religion over another, nor is it their right or privlege to do so. In fact, it is expressly forbidden in The Constitution.

I don't think the Constitution says what you think it says. You should try reading it sometime, you may actually learn something. But let me save you some suspense... Christine O'Donnell is right: You won't find "separation of church and state" anywhere in that document.

***Wolfpack*** · 10-24-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Boy

I have to admit Mr & Mrs put up a pretty convincing argument in the defense of "Happy Holidays"

Being who I am this is how I would have handled Mr & Mrs waiter who kept wishing them a Merry Christmas were I a Jew.

Waiter "hello, merry christmas"
Harry "f-ck you"

Quoted for truth!

chicowalker · 10-24-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Too bad you're not smart enough to realize how stupid you sound here. "Those people aren't offended by 'Merry Christmas' they just don't want anyone to be allowed to say it and they want all the signs taken down and they want it to be forbidden language in public buildings. Oh, but no they're not offended!"

But don't worry, I didn't "give you too much credit." I knew you weren't smart enough to realize how stupid your own argument sounds.

Good stuff from a guy who can't understand the distinction b/t having an issue with their view of the government and religion and having an issue with a greeting.

Mrs.PatsFanInVa · 10-24-2010, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

I don't think the Constitution says what you think it says. You should try reading it sometime, you may actually learn something. But let me save you some suspense... Christine O'Donnell is right: You won't find "separation of church and state" anywhere in that document.

I didn't say anything about separation of church and state, did I? I said the constitution forbid the state from showing a preference for any one religion - in this case, Christianity.

And yes, that's exactly what the First Amendment states.

The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment prohibits the establishment of a national religion by the Congress or the preference of one religion over another, non-religion over religion, or religion over non-religion. Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the federal government. Subsequently, McCollum v. Board of Education, 333 U.S. 203 (1948) incorporated certain select provisions. However, it was not until the middle to late twentieth century that the Supreme Court began to interpret the Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses in such a manner as to restrict the promotion of religion by state governments. In the Board of Education of Kiryas Joel Village School District v. Grumet, 512 U.S. 687 (1994), Justice David Souter, writing for the majority, concluded that "government should not prefer one religion to another, or religion to irreligion."[2]

First Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

***Wolfpack*** · 10-24-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

I didn't say anything about separation of church and state, did I?

I didn't say you did, did I?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs.PatsFanInVa

I said the constitution forbid the state from showing a preference for any one religion - in this case, Christianity.

And yes, that's exactly what the First Amendment states.

Actually, no it isn't. Like I said, you should actually read the actual document sometime. I know you're terrified of actually learning something, but it's not as painful as you seem to think it is.

Go tell me what part of the Constitution says some town hall employee can't put up a "Merry Christmas" sign which offends the left so much. Please feel free to quote the actual Constitution and not some Wikipedia page when you respond. TIA.

Mrs.PatsFanInVa · 10-24-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Go tell me what part of the Constitution says some town hall employee can't put up a "Merry Christmas" sign which offends the left so much.

That's exactly what I did, WP. The Supreme Court has already established that a local government cannot do anything which would indicate a preference for one religion over another based upon their interpretation of the first amendment.

Unless you think you interpret it better than they do.