Well, for starters, they've had 3 free elections in Iraq. That type of geopolitical change. Again, and I don't know how many times I have to keep saying this, I wouldn't have attempted this myself. I didn't like the idea as the US as an invader. The fact of the matter is however, that they thought a prosperous and successful democracy in the heart of the ME would push the surrounding citizentry to demand the same. The reality is that we need oil. That as witnessed on 9/11, SP's are determined to use any means necessary to kill men, women, and children in as large a manner as is possible. The oil, and the SP's come from the same countries and places. So what do you do? It's not coincidence that Blair and Bush were talking freedom, poverty, and oppression immediately after 9/11. Remember they're saying "free people are peaceful people"? I'm not saying I would have done what they decided to do, but in their eyes it was the best long term manner with which to deal with the problem. Just look at what the threat of attacking Iran has done to oil prices. Imagine if you invaded SA. That doesn't even take into consideration the fact that Iraq had an unpopular ruler, with a secular, and highly educated population, whereas the majority of the ME does not. The point being, that regime change would be more widely accepted in Iraq versus say a Pakistan or SA. Well, how's that working out for us? Not all that good right?

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

There is a central government Patters, it's just not doing a sufficient job. Furthermore, these places aren't like downtown Cambridge. They're far different than anything you or I could possiblely understand. Warlords are in Afghanistan, Iraq is tribal. Warlords are drug pushers and murderers, tribes are a congregation of followers. What we've done there is work with tribes to protect their own neighborhoods with US support. It's worked extremely well to this point. Now, from what I've read, the challenge will be to mix different locals together in neighborhood checkpoints. It's worked well in the IA, and now they're going to try it at the local level.

So it'll take 20 years to play out but you've already deemed it a failure. Sure, you want success there.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

You must be boycotting all oil products because of your outrage... either that or you're a complete hypocrite... which is it..?

There is no central government, just some entity that some people pretend has some kind of authority.

Yeah, I think it's going fail in terms of achieving our interests.

We are not liked in that region, we do not have a lot of leverage, we do not share many of the cultural beliefs, we do not have local access that Iranians and Saudis do (thanks to language and culture), do not have control over the propaganda machinery, and we've killed 10s of 1000s of civilians, caused millions to flee, and ruined the Iraqi economy.

It might surprise you, but in that part of the world, when you kill someone's son or daughter, the family gets angry and is not quick to forgive. You might be the kind that if, say, Australia invaded us to rescue us from Hillary, you'd forgive them if they accidentally killed your parents, destroyed your home, and left you destitute, but not all people are like that.

It seems obvious to me that there will be problems in Iraq for a long time to come, and we will be seen for what we really are: the bad guys who, through lies and misinformation, destroyed a nation.

He probably doesn't buy anything made in China either.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

Liberals didn't want to offend Arabs after 9/11 by flying to many American Flags, then they turn around and call them "Bush Friends" isn't that a form of Offense

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Stupid Harry Boy

If we need oil that someone else has, we should trade for or buy it at whatever price they set, right? Isn't that the free market principle? Otherwise, how could our forceful procurement of natural resources from another country be any different than what the Japanese did in Asia in the 30's and 40's?

Right after Bush and Blair said "free people are peaceful people", what did they do? Free people are just as likely to be violent as any other if their government and military wish it so and have the political means to do it. Even if they thought a prosperous and successful democracy in the heart of the ME would push the surrounding citizentry to demand the same, that doesn't justify doing it. Besides, it hasn't worked that way, has it?

In the end, we've accomplished nothing after spending a trillion gazillion dollars and wasted nearly 4,000 American lives and tens of thousands of Iraqis. Don't forget the injured and psychologically damaged. And nothing has changed in the Middle East that really matters.

I guess I am a hypocrite, is this OK with you?? I guess I am a complete Hypocrite also..

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"The game of football is fun when you win, when you lose it becomes a business"...Junior Seau

There is a central government, whether you like it or not. It's not pulling it's weight, but it does exist.



Like I said, you, and most others from your congregation, have already deemed it a failure. Harry Reid already declared that we lost a long time ago.

Wow, really? No way? OMFG! They don't like us there, and they hold a grudge. To think I wasted $70k on cawlidge.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"

Wistah, you'll get no argument from me here. Were the decision left to me I'd have never invaded. I'm merely pointing out why they decided to do what they did. I think there is plausibility to their position, but again, I wouldn't have done it.

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"A theory that explains everything, explains nothing"