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  #21  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEM View Post
Obama has no chance of winning the presidency.

He is the Democratic candidate that many republicans are cheering for, and hope that he wins the nomination because they know that he has absolutely no chance of winning.

I would not be surprised to see many republicans, in many states, register as Democrats to vote in their primaries to vote for Obama.

He will never win one single state in the south, Utah, and just about every red state, and he would lose a couple of the blue states that are bordering red one.

Racial bigotry is still huge in this country, and primarily in the Republican and Religious white , oops, I meant "right, of course, states.
So that's why most polls show him beating Romney by 10 points or more.
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  #22  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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Originally Posted by Patters View Post
It's pretty obvious both conservatives and liberals have litmus' tests. It's just that not all of them admit it.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...Sq6PAD8SUB1C01
I know each side wants to put people who are more inclinded to agree with their perspective on such issues. To me I want a person who is going to respect the law, and uphold the constitution. What Obama basically said last night was that the consititution, or the law is irrelevent, because he wants people who've been held down, or have been in the minority in their lives. That truly scared the bleep out of me. Activism is the last thing anyone should want in a justice of any kind. The law should be viewed as the law, and should be ambiguous. It should see no color, no creed, no favorites. It should respect precendent, and uphold the constitution. Obama's answer on that was really disturbing to me, especially since he taught constitutional law for 10 years. I like him personally. He is, probably with McCain, the most honest, and sincere person in the entire election. However, the more he gets into detail, the less I like what I hear. That's disappointing to me because I think he exudes a certain sense of leadership that many people would be inclined to follow. When he speaks, I listen, and I think other people do too. Unfortunately speaking isn't everything.
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  #23  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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Originally Posted by Real World View Post
Obama's answer on that was really disturbing to me, especially since he taught constitutional law for 10 years. I like him personally. He is, probably with McCain, the most honest, and sincere person in the entire election. However, the more he gets into detail, the less I like what I hear. That's disappointing to me because I think he exudes a certain sense of leadership that many people would be inclined to follow. When he speaks, I listen, and I think other people do too. Unfortunately speaking isn't everything.
More parroting from me, but I agree on Obama. He's so genuine, he really wants to bring a sincere change to the country and make it better. It's very refreshing. But I just can't help but think what a horror show his policies would be, or least how he's talked about them now. I love McCain's honesty as well, but his time has passed.
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2007, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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More parroting from me, but I agree on Obama. He's so genuine, he really wants to bring a sincere change to the country and make it better. It's very refreshing. But I just can't help but think what a horror show his policies would be, or least how he's talked about them now. I love McCain's honesty as well, but his time has passed.
We're on the same page Farmy. Obama truly cares, and you can see it when he speaks. McCain lost me with Amnesty. I'll never vote for him for that specific reason. I like, and respect the man immensly, but I said I wouldn't vote for anyone who voted for Amnesty, and I'm sticking too that. As an aside, there's some talk about a Giuliani/McCain ticket. I don't see it personally. They are very good friends, but they seem to similar for that too work. Usually a VP choice is made to balance a ticket, and if Rudy does take the nod, I'd like to think he'd choose someone who would appeal to religious conservatives, or southern republicans.
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  #25  
Old 11-16-2007, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Oh, it's absolutely true about the front runners on the pub side. The problem is they don't hog the spotlight because they know how, they do so because the system is set up that way. Biden was making fun of that all night, but sadly, most people didn't pick up on it because they're in that 30-40%. They constantly go to the same couple of people. There was an instance, I think it was regarding Pakistan, where they said they were going to ask everyone, and yet they never asked Kucinich who had to go back to it when he was asked a separate question 10 minutes later.
I agree the media plays favorites, but for some reason this time around, for the first time, I think, at least the minor candidates are getting some air time, and people like Kucinich and Paul are exerting some influence on their respective parties, which is good. Like them or not, they do have fresh ideas and are very principled. That said, the best candidates have great stage presence and drum of ratings. FYI,

http://chrisdodd.com/files/talkclock/lv-chart.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Hillary and Romney speak that way not because they're from the midwest, but because they're the Ken & Barbie of the 2008 election.
I agree with that about Romney. He was always the same. Time stands still for him. Just read that as a Mormon in the 70s, he did not participate in the effort to get the Mormon church to allow blacks. (Yes, they used a passage from the Bible to justify excluding blacks.) And when you look at pictures of him from any time in his life, he looks unchanging, immature (like a Ken doll), and not part of the real world.

Hillary, on the other hand, is like the other candidates. She's very much in the present. Look at all the candidates' photos--Thompson, Clinton, McCain, etc. -- in different decades and you'll see they were all reasonably hip to the times. That's why Romney seems like Ward Cleaver, but Hillary is certainly no June Cleaver. (By the way, do you think it was subliminal sexism to have a character named Beaver Cleaver? )

I don't think you can compare them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Hillary isn't formal, she's fony. Northerly wind last night, as we saw a "no" on licenses for illegals. I still don't understand why they didn't push her on her flip flop there. She's toast against anyone but Romney. She won't be able to handle the attacks she's going to get in a heads up election.
Hillary has written off your vote. You're not part of the group she's trying to convince because she knows she can't. What you see as phony others see as genuine, and what you see as genuine others in many cases see as phony. For instance, I bet you see Giuliani and Thompson as genuine, just as many people saw our Connecticut born President as a good 'ol boy. They all act. They have to. But, Hillary is not looking for your vote, just as Romney is not looking for my vote. Hillary's act doesn't fool me, but apparently the Republican act fools you (as it's supposed to do; the white male vote is central to their effort to win).
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  #26  
Old 11-16-2007, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

I thought Hillary's answer to whether she's playing the gender card was the best moment in the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3ToN7fafk
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  #27  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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Originally Posted by Patters View Post
I agree the media plays favorites, but for some reason this time around, for the first time, I think, at least the minor candidates are getting some air time, and people like Kucinich and Paul are exerting some influence on their respective parties, which is good. Like them or not, they do have fresh ideas and are very principled. That said, the best candidates have great stage presence and drum of ratings. FYI,

http://chrisdodd.com/files/talkclock/lv-chart.jpg
I'm starting to think you might be in that 30-40% pal. So they're now starting to give some of the people they've ignored some extra time. Great eh? Naht! First of all, they aren't, as Biden was clearly making light of, and second, even if they were, it's too late. There are 3 people on the Dem side who have a chance, and even that's a stretch. They've sequestered the other candidates to ensure that the establishment favorite(s) get to the front.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patters View Post
I agree with that about Romney. He was always the same. Time stands still for him. Just read that as a Mormon in the 70s, he did not participate in the effort to get the Mormon church to allow blacks. (Yes, they used a passage from the Bible to justify excluding blacks.) And when you look at pictures of him from any time in his life, he looks unchanging, immature (like a Ken doll), and not part of the real world.

Hillary, on the other hand, is like the other candidates. She's very much in the present. Look at all the candidates' photos--Thompson, Clinton, McCain, etc. -- in different decades and you'll see they were all reasonably hip to the times. That's why Romney seems like Ward Cleaver, but Hillary is certainly no June Cleaver. (By the way, do you think it was subliminal sexism to have a character named Beaver Cleaver? )

I don't think you can compare them.

LOL. Yeah, Romney is fony, but hillary isn't. Nah, no way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patters View Post
Hillary has written off your vote. You're not part of the group she's trying to convince because she knows she can't. What you see as phony others see as genuine, and what you see as genuine others in many cases see as phony. For instance, I bet you see Giuliani and Thompson as genuine, just as many people saw our Connecticut born President as a good 'ol boy. They all act. They have to. But, Hillary is not looking for your vote, just as Romney is not looking for my vote. Hillary's act doesn't fool me, but apparently the Republican act fools you (as it's supposed to do; the white male vote is central to their effort to win).
Right, she's written me off because I'm not part of that 30-40%. I'm not an illegal alien, a welfare recipient, an individual with an IQ lower than 69 , or a complete sign my life away to my party M&M.

Thompson I don't know too much about except for a few things like his concern about entitlements, his being against a federal amendment to outlaw abortion, and his belief in states rights. Giuliani I've spoken about plenty in here. He's results oriented, but has some severe problems in my view. Quite honestly, I think the entire field sucks royally. I'm hoping I can vote for somebody before it's all over, but I'm having my doubts at this point.
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  #28  
Old 11-16-2007, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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I thought Hillary's answer to whether she's playing the gender card was the best moment in the debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM3ToN7fafk
She is playing the gender card, and will continue to as it suits her. She'll try not to nationally, but she certainly will locally.
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  #29  
Old 11-17-2007, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

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  #30  
Old 11-17-2007, 06:57 AM
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Default Re: Anyone watching the Democratic debate?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
I'm starting to think you might be in that 30-40% pal. So they're now starting to give some of the people they've ignored some extra time. Great eh? Naht! First of all, they aren't, as Biden was clearly making light of, and second, even if they were, it's too late. There are 3 people on the Dem side who have a chance, and even that's a stretch. They've sequestered the other candidates to ensure that the establishment favorite(s) get to the front.
Seems to me in past years, minor candidates were completely excluded and there were so few debates that they had almost no exposure. Now, at least the Democrats are having a large number of debates, and the minor candidates are getting heard. It's not fair, certainly, but it's better now than in past elections.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Right, she's written me off because I'm not part of that 30-40%. I'm not an illegal alien, a welfare recipient, an individual with an IQ lower than 69 , or a complete sign my life away to my party M&M.
There's no way you would support Hillary, as your completely ignorant and insulting comments show. She won't try to get your vote anymore than Thompson will try to get mine. Her performance is not to win over people like you. As I said, the candidates who want your vote will play to your emotions and values, and you will fall for it. The idea of phoniness is a naive argument unless you think that Hillary is the only one who has handlers and marketers. Did you know that Reagan was an actor? That Bush II has New England Yankee breeding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Thompson I don't know too much about except for a few things like his concern about entitlements, his being against a federal amendment to outlaw abortion, and his belief in states rights. Giuliani I've spoken about plenty in here. He's results oriented, but has some severe problems in my view.
Funny how with guys you like somewhat, you talk about their policies, but with Hillary you talk about her "phony" personality. Thompson is an actor. Did you not know that? Giuliani is performer, too. Wake up, RW. The only reason you perceive Hillary's phoniness is because she knows that there's no way guys like you would seriously consider her candidacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Real World
Quite honestly, I think the entire field sucks royally. I'm hoping I can vote for somebody before it's all over, but I'm having my doubts at this point.
The Dems are pretty happy with their choices, but I agree with you that the Republicans all suck.
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