Stokes

Is that true? I always hear stuff like that, but I'm not sure if it really is the case. Is there a resource where we can find out who gets welfare benefits?

As to the idea of forcing someone to open a daycare, why wouldn't that person just open a daycare and make a profit rather than do it for a crappy welfare check? My guess would be you wouldn't have too many people jumping at that chance! In principle I definitely like the thinking, getting people off their asses and working, but in practice it may not work.

Of course the easy answer would be for the women to take responsibility and not have children they can't support, but to suggest that is almost criminal at this point.

STFarmy

Personal responsibility??? WHAT ARE YOU MAD????

Of course that's almost criminal in our bass-ackwards society. But to me, it explains more and more why people turn to the government to make decisions for them. Rights and responsibility come hand in hand....... the more responsibility you abdicate, the more rights you lose. I'm not making a conspiracy theory here, I don't think it's conscious (though some may enjoy the results), but it's just the way it is. So this current trend of not taking responsibility FOR ANYTHING leads us only to a path of loss of freedoms.

sdaniels7114

I used the lazy/weasel word 'oftentimes.' I did that because I really don't know how many standard, two parent families are on welfare. I do know that single parents have a particularly tough row to hoe though. I couldn't say for sure, but I doubt there's a lot of 20-60 something year olds with no kids to care for, who are collecting welfare.

You aren't forcing anyone to open anything. The only requirement would be accepting the child-care service and getting a job rather than using a lack of child care as an excuse to not hold one. I think a lot of people on welfare would be interested. Many people are curious about running their own business, the risk of failure holds them back. The state subsidizing this 'business' would eliminate the risk and it wouldn't bother me in the least if those participating grew out of state subsidy and took their 'business' private.


I don't know if its quite criminal. I consider myself to be pretty left-leaning and I have no problem with having more respect for those that wait until they're ready for kids over those that don't; but we need to deal with the situation we have, not pine for a better one.

Stokes

well said by both of you STFarmy and sdaniels, I'll be interested to see if anyone here knows of a place to answer the question of the demographics of welfare.

DarrylS

If you were to inact a community service portion of all of this, it would take another layer of gov't to enact and oversee.. so unless there is a more efficient way of doing this the cost would probably double in 10 years. With that being said, most people on welfare do not enjoy being on welfare.. most are there because of the cycle of poverty, poor education and having kids..

My thoughts about all of this were to take all the non supporting dads, give them a choice of home confinement or weekend trash crew, give them some kinda jump suit that are high visibility to protect them and make them walk the highways on weekends picking up trash. Give them a minimum pay, but do not pay them.. instead credit it toward their back support.

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Patters

Stokes, I think there are too many types of welfare for the question to be easily answered. There's SS, subsidized school lunches, AFDC, foodstamps, Medicaid, veterans aid, subsidies to farmers, unemployment insurance, foster care, housing aid, earned income tax credits, and to complicate it further, some of the aid is state and some federal. Obviously, with AFDC (Aid for Dependent Children) there's a large number of single mothers, but with many of the other programs it's probably different. (And I can't find a good source of info that provides a detailed breakdown of who gets what.)

It probably wouldn't work because daycare facilities, rightly, are fairly tightly regulated. But, it might work as a sort of collective babysitting effort.

Interesting how your conservative views left out any mention of the man. Maybe that attitude is part of the problem, too?

FreeTedWilliams

I think he is thinking about SSI, and not your social security, which I think we can all agree is YOUR MONEY, actually it is less money than you would have, if you were allowed to set the same amount of money that the government took from you, and invested it (in the American economy).

SSI, is given to the "disabled"

Russian immigrant have taken this to a new low, claiming that they can not adjust to life here in America and they are "disabled" and believe it or not, they are getting SSI, due to this.

I say remove all forms of welfare, everything, allow charities to run these programs, they will do it more effieicently and much more cost effective than the government. Imagine no more "housing developments" or medicare!

If people have less accesss to "free money" they might actually work. The unemployment rate is this country is under 5%, which basically is the percentage of the population which is unemployable (drug addicts, handicapped people, etc.).

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Patters

Yeah, FTW is right, I meant SSI.

Real World

Why penalize only the dad? Why is it that women always get a free ride for their culpability? Last I checked it takes two to tango. The bottom line is that people don't frown upon government assistance anymore. It used to be embarrassing to be on welfare. Well, it's not anymore. People will take a hand out even when they don't really need it, because it means they have less of a burden on their own lives. Welfare comes in a multitude of ways. From actual cash payments from the government, to MHFA or HUD subsidized property, to local housing authorities & their voucher programs. You don't know how many people I've shown subsidized units to, who openly tell me how they want the subsidy so they can work less. It's truly sad. The more you reward irresponsible behavior, the more irresponsible behavior you'll have.

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Real World

In what way? Everyone wants it both ways. They want an equal society, but when it comes to making babies, it's always the eeeeeeeeeeevil guys fault, and not the poor, victimized woman. It takes two to tango buddy. When a child is born, both individuals need to be accountable. It's a double standard in this country that isn't always discussed.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897