shmessy

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...&dist=hplatest

George W. Bush. One of many of his legacies to our country.

But there IS good news! He has destroyed the dollar so much that tourism here is taking off!

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"They (Patriots) may be the greatest team ever" - Chris Mortenson, January 18, 2005 on espn.com

STFarmy

I wouldn't say this current fiscal situation is due solely to Bush, though he certainly has made it worse. I know people would like to believe that, but it's certainly not true. We've been spending irresponsibly for years, and this is the result. We need someone in office who will actually change the way things are done. Sadly, I see no one in this crop of candidates that I have that level of confidence in.

Real World

Shem, consumer sentiment is almost worthless. Hard figures are what matter more. The only thing that keeps me from certifying a serious economic decline in the coming couple of years, is the jobs market. It's remained incredibly strong, especially with recent hiring figures, which means there is a demand for labor. If we see significant loss in the jobs market, then look out. As long as people are working, the economy will hold it's own. I think fuel costs are our biggest concern right now. That won't help the declining housing market at all. It'll actually make it worse.


Decades is more like it. GW has simply poured an oil tankers worth of gas onto the fire. Government has not decreased in size in any single year since the 50's. There hasn't been a cut. Whether it's military spending, or entitlements, this country was headed to fiscal implosion a long, long time ago. Nobody wants to make the necessary, and unpopular decisions that will set us on a path to long term efficiency.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

BelichickFan

Most people are just a bunch of sheep who do and say what they're told to. Othersise the right track/wrong track wouldn't have something like 21% saying right track - it's ridiculous.

Patters

Under Clinton, the Democrats wisely stole the banner of fiscal responsibility with regard to the deficit. Reagan and Bush II made a travesty of our budget, and for that reason that Democrats are reasonably well poised among independents. If Hillary is elected, we'll probably return to responsible fiscal management. But, on what basis would anyone at this point trust a Republican in that regard? The word 'conservative' may mean fiscally responsible to some, but the reality simply does not reflect that. I think the Democrats for purely political reasons will continue to be fiscally conservative with regard to the budget since it gives them a powerful political weapon.

I think the gold line is most significant in this chart.

Real World

Let's remember that Reagan had a Cold War to fight and win, while Clinton had nothing to worry about during his tenure. That affects the numbers in a multitude of ways. Furthermore, if it's the gold line that is the most critical, then GW is right in line with the last 30+ years. The peak over that time seems to be somewhere around 23%, with the low being somewhere at 19%. GW is a shade over 20%. BTw, got the link to that site, I'd like to see what the analysis is.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Patters

Reagan chose to fight the cold war and cut taxes. He didn't have to, and I question what good it did us.

Well, what the line shows in increased spending and the blue line shows decreased revenues. Not a good a approach to fiscal responsibility.

I found the chart through an image search, but it apparently comes from somewhere on this site:

http://www.bea.gov/

BelichickFan

Other than Iraq, what spending of Bush's are you against ? Seems to me that most of his other spending has been on things you would like . . .

Patters

Iraq is plenty. I don't think there needs to be anything else. If you're going to wage war, then also make it good for the economy. Can you think of another case offhand where war was actually bad for the economy? He should have taken advantage of the prosperity that war tends to create to make aggressive progress against the deficit. --If it was a Democrat instituting national health care, which I think will at least initially be very good for the economy (simply because it's a whole new industry), they should raise taxes, cut military (mainly Iraq), and lower the deficit.

BelichickFan

That's fine, it's a valid opinion but a lot of his other spending (like prescription drugs added to Medicare) is a big part of the increase of government spending under Bush and I think you'd favor most of it.