Israeli-palestinian Thread

[Wildo7]

This thread is for anyone who wishes to discuss Israel, Palestine and the significance of that conflict in the greater context of the middle east and the current and historical global political situation.

There will be no Ad Hominem attacks, and no derogatory or debasing terms or accusations used in here. If there are, you will be ignored. Please only post in here if you are genuinely interested in this issue and feel you have a point to make or something to contribute. Please do not come here to make people mad, attempt to deride other members for their other beliefs, or raise topics that are unrelated to this topic.

I hope we can learn from one another through open and honest dialogue about this hotly-contested, passionate and very important subject.

Thanks,
Will

[Wildo7]

http://alternet.org/story/65271/

Breaking the Taboo: Why We Took On the Israel Lobby

By Eric Chinski, Farrar, Straus and Giroux. Posted October 16, 2007.

John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt explain in this interview why they decided to speak out against the close relationship between the U.S. and Israel.


Eric Chinski, the editor of John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt’s provocative new bestseller, asks the authors whether their book is good for the Jews and good for America. This interview originally appeared on the Web site of the publishing house Farrar, Straus and Giroux. Thanks to TruthDig for resurfacing it.

Why did your article "The Israel Lobby," which was published in the London Review of Books in 2006, provoke such heated discussion around the world? James Traub wrote in The New York Times Magazine: " 'The Israel Lobby' slammed into the opinion-making world with a Category 5 force." How would you describe the reaction?

The article received enormous attention because it challenged what had become a taboo issue in mainstream foreign policy circles, namely the impact of the Israel lobby on U.S. Middle East policy. We did not question Israel's legitimacy and explicitly stated that the United States should come to Israel's aid if its survival is at risk, but we did argue that pro-Israel groups in the United States were encouraging policies that were ultimately not in America's national interest. Although the views we expressed are often discussed openly in other democracies -- including Israel itself -- they have rarely been set forth in detail by mainstream figures in the United States. The article was also of great interest to many readers because it has become increasingly obvious that U.S. Middle East policy has gone badly awry. Although a number of groups and individuals either mischaracterized our views or attacked us personally, many other readers agreed that such an examination of the lobby's role was long overdue.

[Wildo7]

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarti...7&ItemID=14071

Israel's rising right wing
by Gregory Levey

October 18, 2007
salon.com
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Together, an enigmatic billionaire and a

resurgent Bibi Netanyahu could put Israel on

the war path. Dick Cheney, AIPAC and Iran are

all watching closely.





One of this year's nominees for Israeli TV's "Man of the Year in Politics" award doesn't speak Hebrew. He has vast wealth and a shady past. He was once a circus worker. He isn't even a politician, at least not yet.



But over the past several years Arcadi Gaydamak, an enigmatic Russian-Israeli billionaire, has managed to become a widely influential figure in Israel. And he is now at the center of a right-wing political alliance -- featuring Israeli uber-hawk Benjamin "Bibi" Netanyahu -- that could dramatically influence the country's direction. If the rising alliance takes power in the next election, it could push Israel toward military confrontations with Iran, Syria or Hezbollah, while extinguishing any remaining flickers of hope in Israel's peace camp regarding the Palestinians. Gaydamak has recently been consolidating his influence as a power broker in Israeli politics. He has used his wealth to gain popularity through social and business initiatives, while deftly exploiting the widespread perception of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's government as corrupt and incompetent, particularly during last year's disastrous war in Lebanon. With his financial capital and cunning political tactics, Gaydamak is like a cross between George Soros and Karl Rove, with a streak of Russian oligarchy at his core.



In a country full of colorful political characters, he may be the most colorful. Gaydamak is wanted in France for illegal arms dealing. He is alleged to have ties, through his former arms-dealing partner, to Halliburton and to corporations that donated to President George W. Bush's 2000 campaign. He has Russian, Israeli, French and Canadian citizenship, as well as a diplomatic passport from Angola, on which he reportedly travels in order to avoid arrest. He owns a Jerusalem soccer team with a notoriously racist, anti-Arab fan base. And he is said to be planning a run for mayor of Jerusalem.

[maverick4]

Careful, you'll be called an anti-semite by half a dozen people here.
The term "Anti-semite" has come less to mean someone who hates Jews, but more someone Jews hate.

[maverick4]

These days, anyone who criticizes Israel or Israeli influence on foreign policy through AIPAC or Project for a New American Century are branded as anti-semites.

This is why guys like Jimmy Carter and Dean Walt can be character assassinated so quickly and thoroughly, Dersowitz and other extremists like him will crucify anyone who dares to criticize.

We live in an Orwellian world now where DoubleSpeak is real, and it is mostly about anything related to Israel.

[maverick4]

Originally Posted by NEM

I don't know if you are an anti-semite, or not, but many of your posts would indicate that your are.

That's as stupid as saying criticizing Bush or neocons or the administration means you hate America or American people.

People are a little too trigger happy these days with the 'anti-semite' label, it has come to mean nothing anymore.

NEM, since this is your logic, from now on when you voice any of your criticisms of Bush or this country, I'll brand you as anti-American.

[PressCoverage]

frankly, i'm so utterly sick and weary of the israeli-arab conflict... sick to death of it...

sick of the same arguments over there, the same accusations of "they started it"... sick of the resources our nation has had/chosen to put into it... sick of getting angry about 23 October, 1983... sick of getting angry about the water siphoning situation (or whatever you wanna call it) ... sick of the stubborness... the lies by both sides... sick of the quandry we're constantly in as a result of it ... sick of europe's role in all of it... sick of the refusal by the two sides to ever truly come to the table and arrainge peace... sick of the posturing and reactionary response to accidents by both sides... sick of the unwillingness by both sides to ever really discipline their own hawkish factions who fan the flames each time...

sick of it all... all because of religous ground and sentimentality...

overly simplistic? naive? perhaps... but we are not the world's police... and we should never have choose sides in a conflict 10 timezones away... our leaders should have fostered peace at every turn, the world courts should have punished convicted illegal arms dealers with death... instead, the U.S. has chosen a side, and you might say armed BOTH sides... and done so for decades... both state-sponsored arms sales, and the slimey underworld transactions... guns, guns, guns... yeehaw!

[QuiGon]

Originally Posted by Wildo7

This thread is for anyone who wishes to discuss Israel, Palestine and the significance of that conflict in the greater context of the middle east and the current and historical global political situation.

There will be no Ad Hominem attacks, and no derogatory or debasing terms or accusations used in here. If there are, you will be ignored.

So in otherwords, when you start a thread, you don't want people doing the things you do in other peoples' threads. Got'cha..!!