Lawmakers flip-flopping on Armenian Genocide bill - New England Patriots Forums

Seymour93 · 10-16-2007, 10:30 PM

This was always going to happen....

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/wa...rssnyt&emc=rss

Quote:

Support Wanes in House for Genocide Vote
By CARL HULSE
Published: October 17, 2007

WASHINGTON, Oct. 16 — Worried about antagonizing Turkish leaders, House members from both parties have begun to withdraw their support from a resolution backed by the Democratic leadership that would condemn as genocide the mass killings of Armenians nearly a century ago.

Almost a dozen lawmakers had shifted against the measure in a 24-hour period ending Tuesday night, accelerating a sudden exodus that has cast deep doubt over the measure’s prospects. Some made clear that they were heeding warnings from the White House, which has called the measure dangerously provocative, and from the Turkish government, which has said House passage would prompt Turkey to reconsider its ties to the United States, including logistical support for the Iraq war.

Until Tuesday, the measure appeared on a path to House passage, with strong support from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It was approved last week by the House Foreign Affairs Committee. But by Tuesday evening, a group of senior House Democrats had made it known that they were planning to ask the leadership to drop plans for a vote on the measure.

“Turkey obviously feels they are getting poked in the eye over something that happened a century ago and maybe this isn’t a good time to be doing that,” said Representative Allen Boyd, a Florida Democrat who dropped his sponsorship of the resolution on Monday night.

[...]

“We simply cannot allow the grievances of the past, as real as they may be, to in any way derail our efforts to prevent further atrocities for future history books,” said Representative Wally Herger, Republican of California.

Representative Mike Ross, Democrat of Arkansas, said, “I think it is a good resolution and horrible timing.”

[...]

Backers of the resolution, which has the fervent support of the Armenian-American community, described the shift as slight and attributed it to the intense lobbying by the Turkish government, the administration and their allies. They said they would try to change the minds of some of those who were wavering.

“This is what happens when you are up against a very sophisticated multimillion-dollar campaign,” said Representative Brad Sherman, Democrat of California, who chided the Turkish government. “Since when has it become fashionable for friends to threaten friends?”

But he acknowledged there was little margin of error for backers of the resolution, which had once boasted 225 co-sponsors. “If the vote were held today, I would not want to bet my house on the outcome,” he said.

When will the timing be right to call a genocide a genocide? If we leave the decision up to Turkey then we know the answer: Never.

***DarrylS*** · 10-17-2007, 04:32 AM

And the biggest flip flopper of them all, George Bush.. guess there is a difference between campaign rhetoric and the doing the right thing.

http://www.anca.org/press_releases/p...es.php?prid=60

"The twentieth century was marred by wars of unimaginable brutality, mass murder and genocide. History records that the Armenians were the first people of the last century to have endured these cruelties. The Armenians were subjected to a genocidal campaign that defies comprehension and commands all decent people to remember and acknowledge the facts and lessons of an awful crime in a century of bloody crimes against humanity. If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people." (George W. Bush 2-19-2000)

wistahpatsfan · 10-17-2007, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

... I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people." (George W. Bush 2-19-2000)

*****crickets chirping*******

***Patters*** · 10-17-2007, 07:56 AM

Given how badly we've antagonized the Muslim community with our unjustified war on Iraq, it's no wonder we find ourselves in a weak position right now. It's no surprise that we're backing down on this condemnation of one of the very few allies we have in the region. Just as when Bush cowered on 9/11 by not going to DC, he's cowering now. He's a weak man, who deserves our pity. Let's hope we can ride out the next year or so without further challenges that will force him to back down again. As far as Congress goes, it's clear we'll need a larger Democratic majority in order for it to get back its courage.

fleabassist1 · 10-17-2007, 08:18 AM

What the hell are the liberals trying to get out of this? Even further defeat for America?

Just goes to show you what lengths liberals will go at to further destroy America.

***Patters*** · 10-17-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleabassist1

What the hell are the liberals trying to get out of this? Even further defeat for America?

Just goes to show you what lengths liberals will go at to further destroy America.

Oh, come on flea, isn't it apparent that we are politically and morally weak in the world? We don't hold the ethical high ground, except among loyal Republican who, like it or not, do not speak for much of the world. It doesn't mean that we're not still a great country, but right now our government does not have much political clout around the world, compared to any of our presidents in the last 20 or 30 years. Even Carter had far more clout in the ME than does Bush. As a result, we are kowtowing to every ME government we have relations with. We lack leverage. So, who is destroying America? Those who continue to defend the policies of the President are doing far more harm than liberals.

fleabassist1 · 10-17-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Oh, come on flea, isn't it apparent that we are politically and morally weak in the world? We don't hold the ethical high ground, except among loyal Republican who, like it or not, do not speak for much of the world. It doesn't mean that we're not still a great country, but right now our government does not have much political clout around the world, compared to any of our presidents in the last 20 or 30 years. Even Carter had far more clout in the ME than does Bush. As a result, we are kowtowing to every ME government we have relations with. We lack leverage. So, who is destroying America? Those who continue to defend the policies of the President are doing far more harm than liberals.

I'm not so sure of that. I think that you should give credit to Bush where it is due - yeah, I disagree with a lot of the things he has done... but you just have to give credit where its due. On this board I guess I defend Bush more then I criticize him, only because most people here bash him

There is no reason whatsoever that we have to condemn turkey. Why right now? It just makes no sense. And besides, the Turkish government of today were not the ones responsible. Pigface and Pelosi do not need to push this. We already have a big enough task (With the Liberals not supporting the war effort - which is all fine and dandy, free speech and all that) without the liberals actively trying to destabilize the region more.

***QuiGon*** · 10-17-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Given how badly we've antagonized the Muslim community with our unjustified war on Iraq, it's no wonder we find ourselves in a weak position right now. It's no surprise that we're backing down on this condemnation of one of the very few allies we have in the region. Just as when Bush cowered on 9/11 by not going to DC, he's cowering now.

Um, despite being advised to stay away, Bush returned to Washington DC that very evening and addressed the nation from the Oval Office.

Looks like just another example of liberals lying so much that they start to believe their own lies and can't differentiate fact from fiction.

***QuiGon*** · 10-17-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

Oh, come on flea, isn't it apparent that we are politically and morally weak in the world? We don't hold the ethical high ground, except among loyal Republican who, like it or not, do not speak for much of the world. It doesn't mean that we're not still a great country, but right now our government does not have much political clout around the world, compared to any of our presidents in the last 20 or 30 years.

That's right... there are no major threats to European security so we don't have much clout because no one needs us. We had tons of clout during the Cold War because everyone was looking to us for protection from the USSR. The US was the only thing stopping the Soviets from marching into West Germany or Turkey (for example). So yeah, we had tons of clout.

But now we've become a victim of our own successes. European allies simply don't need our protection anymore. It used to be the America's enemies were the enemies of the free world, but now other nations see America's enemies as America's problem.

wistahpatsfan · 10-17-2007, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleabassist1

I'm not so sure of that. I think that you should give credit to Bush where it is due - yeah, I disagree with a lot of the things he has done... but you just have to give credit where its due. On this board I guess I defend Bush more then I criticize him, only because most people here bash him

There is no reason whatsoever that we have to condemn turkey. Why right now? It just makes no sense. And besides, the Turkish government of today were not the ones responsible. Pigface and Pelosi do not need to push this. We already have a big enough task (With the Liberals not supporting the war effort - which is all fine and dandy, free speech and all that) without the liberals actively trying to destabilize the region more.

Sure...and we can just forget that the Germans ever committed genocide against Russians, mentally retarded, homosexuals, gypsies and Jews. Seriously...lets just move forward.
Problem is that Bush (once again) said this:
"...If elected President, I would ensure that our nation properly recognizes the tragic suffering of the Armenian people." (George W. Bush 2-19-2000)

He should have kept his mouth shut and moved forward.