Wildo7

watch this excellent documentary by John Pilger.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...arch&plindex=0

fleabassist1

watch this excellent documentary by Pat Condell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHh0NdR5Jh0

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Wildo7

I agree, fundamentalism has reeked havoc on the muslim world. But fundamentalism and violence usually thrives in poor, oppressed countries and attacking them militarily only makes it worse. People don't die for religion, they die for desperation. If it wasn't Islam, it would be something else. Just see the violence in Africa. The use of relion to manipulate people by those in power is nothing new, it's been done for generations. But it's not the root of the problem, ignorance and poverty is, which is why you see similar fundamentalist tendencies in other poverty-stricken and war-ravaged societies.

fleabassist1

I agree with your post - almost. Here are a few disagreements I have:
A) I think that there is some level of people dieing for religion - either it be their own free will or the will of their god/political/religiousleader/leader.
B) The root of the problem is ignorance and poverty, yeah... but it's also jealousy and hatred. They are jealous we are fat stupid and lazy - and we have the technology and power to be so.
C) Fundamentalism and violence may thrive in poor oppressed countries - but they live in ALL countries.

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Wildo7

"Security is an important pillar of human life. Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example."

- Osama Bin Laden

The CIA has stated that Al Quaeda recruits on a platform of hatred for American foreign policy and the crimes they claim America has committed throughout the Middle East. I don't believe that they attack us because of jealousy, that's not something that will make someone kill them self. Rather, most have seen, as is the case with Iraqi insurgents, someone they love die at the hands of the American military/CIA and will readily join a cause that fights back.

maverick4

EXACTLY. And our recent FUBAR moments in the ME can guarantee that an entire generation of pissed off young Middle Eastern men will want to bring us down. Hell, if the same thing happened to me, if ANYONE in my family or friends were killed by some random country occupying and killing people, I would devote my laugh to getting some payback.

The fact that our policy makers and leaders does not understand this basic human reaction, is... tragic.

DarrylS

I agree, but the reaction of our leaders is purposeful, if we look at who has benefitted from this Faux WOT.. the stock market, the oil industry, defense contractors.. not sure if anyone else has done as well during any period of time. Some say it is the economic policy of this adm, I say it is the deferment of debt to the next couple of generations and that this whole thing looks like a surreal video game to most americans.. there has been no effect on most of us, no economic impact as has happened in most other wars. The major impact is on those families who have lost the 3500 + sons and daughters, that impact is diluted by the shear numbers in the US.

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fleabassist1

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
Benjamin Franklin
We can not sacrifice our liberty's for temporary security. However there are some liberties that can be bent for permanent security - such as being scanned to get on an airplane.

"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
Winston Churchill


So an eye for an eye?
The 9/11 terrorist bombings killed 3,000 people previous to our war.
Germany, Spain, England, Parts of Indonesia, and more have been attacked.
Isreal anyone?
The WTC, US Embassy and more being attacked pre-desert-storm/post desert-storm.
Thousands of years of religious fighting in the middle east stretching all the way back to before the Christian European crusades.
They use Allah as the reason for their crusade against us.
They want to convert us all to Allah.

There have been attacks throughout the entire world ranging from large to small. Even women and children have been attacked - even innocent brothers and fathers.

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Wildo7

There's no evidence that "they want to convert us to Allah," as I said before they recuit on a platform of retaliation for American foreign policies in the middles east. And under Sharia law, Christians and Jews were protected for hundreds of years, that is until the crusades set of a pattern of Western betrayal and violence towards the middle east. By the way, who armed and trained Al Quaeda in the first place?