maverick4

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security. ...for the first time, exasperated front-line U.S. generals talk openly of non-democratic governmental alternatives...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...acy/index.html
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So our original motives were WMD's, then it was take out Hussein, then it was 'install democracy and spread freedom'. Um... why are we there again? Oh yeah, that's right: OIL, and PETRODOLLAR, and ISRAEL.

Pujo

What we need here is a strong, firm leader who won't cozy up to Iran and won't tolerate fundamental Islam. Hmmmmmm..... Is Saddam Hussein still alive?

maverick4

This was posted already, but here it is transcribed loosely
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YENbElb5-xY

Cheney in '94 talking about how going into Iraq would be a horrible idea because:
- if you take out the central government, then Syria and Iran and Kurds will fracture the country of Iraq, creating a 'quagmire'.
- lots of American casualties if we got into Iraq.

It's not like they didn't know this stuff, Cheney deliberate cooked the intelligence to get us into Iraq, despite his own knowledge of the disaster that would ensue.

All_Around_Brown

Occams Razor. "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one,"

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DarrylS

This war and the long term effects will be the benchmark of this generation of DC clowns.. there is no endgame here, it will just go on and on and on and on.. and we will continue to spend more money, no taxes now but the debt will be passed on to our children and grandchildren..

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"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

All_Around_Brown

Its so obvious to anyone who had been paying attention that thats all these pols are doing at this point- is to try to milk this as long as possible so noone has to accept responsibility for its inevitable outcome. Thats a function of them being more loyal to their lobbyists than the american people.

So far, the only one with any coherent solution is Joe Biden (ala Peter Galbraith).

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maverick4

Americans forget our history. We funded Saddam for many years to keep back the Iranians and maintain order in a very volatile region. Then, when he decided to change oil currency from the dollar to euro, we took him out.

I don't care if this sounds crazy, because it's true: the region was better with Saddam Hussein in there. Now it's just a cluster*****, and whoever ends up taking control is not going to be a friend of the US.

Real World

Actually the talk, even before the war started, was to insert a Mubarak type government. One that wouldn't be as brutal as Hussien, and wouldn't be as oppressive either. With a strong arm type of quasi dictatorship, they, as in the Iraqi people, could be gradually given larger pieces of the democratic pie as they matured. That idea, along with the tri-state type of automony was considered. In the end, it was free elections that won out. The fear was that in dividing the into states you'd have to still share the revenues of which the Sunni's wouldn't have (oil revs), and you'd still have a problem with Baghdad, and possible interstate war. As for the Mubarak type option, the admin didn;t want it to look like we were installing a puppet in power.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Which would have been to nuke the entire ME post 9/11, and ask questions later.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

maverick4

That would result in permanent hatred towards the US around the world, and a quick fall into being a 2nd rate joke of a country.