ARE YOU NEW HERE? NOT LOGGED IN? PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT TO REGISTER FOR AN ACCOUNT AND LOGIN TO REMOVE THIS WINDOW
Welcome to PatsFans.com. Do you have an account? If not - please take a moment to register for our forum and experience a much smoother experience with fewer ads, along with no longer having to see this notification window. Also learn about how you can receive a free Patriots T-Shirt from the Patriots Official ProShop by CLICKING HERE. Please enjoy your stay here, and Go Pats!
Gentlemen, the U.S. currently exerts a great deal of influence around the world. Some of our allies have human rights standards or systems of succession and power concentration we would not allow in our own nation. Some of our adversaries, likewise.
I won't go into whether the U.S. is itself an ideal society; that particular argument is just self-defeating, given that I am partisan toward my own country in the first place.
But I will go into the question of whether we, the public, in fact do or do not want dictators running loose in the world.
Remember, you have to say one or the other. Yes or no. Friend or Foe.
Also remember, you have no room to criticize, if you do not also say that we are morally bound to remove all such dictators. Not the ones it is profitable to remove. All of them.
Otherwise, all you are saying is "I HATE ALL DICTATORS AND THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT REMOVE ALL DICTATORS... except the people I like who would not remove all dictators, and the people who would only remove dictators I do not like..."
If your claim is that the Chavez presidency in Venezuela must go, and nobody should ever associate with them, then you have to say the same about the Ibn Saud family. If you say Saddam Hussein is a horrible, genocidal maniac, and anybody who does not affirm your conclusion is a dictator-lover, you have to say the same about the Central American dictators in the 80s and 90s (and I'm sure you could make a case against some today.)
The fact is, we deal with the elites of all nations, on the international stage. Some few of them are representative democracies, and some few of those are not utterly subverted.
We make deals with these other nations to secure favorable trade terms, extraction of natural resources, to cement military alliances, for a whole host of things. And private citizens choose sometimes to embrace representatives of one or another country other than the US. Chavez has, in fact, made a number of overtures of friendship toward Americans, but not through the U.S. government. Would I go and hang out with him? Nahhhh. Is Penn free to do so? Of course. It's not like he's running a "shadow government".
By the way, in the usual laundry list of bad dictatorships someone trotted out above, we have mentioned both Ho (original leader of the Viet Minh who kicked out the French, then of the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong,) and Pol Pot.
After Ho's heirs in Vietnam kicked out U.S. troops, for quite some time we looked at Vietnam as evil commies. We could not imagine having an alliance with those communist dictators.
Meanwhile, Pol Pot (also a communist dictator) was killing 1/4 of his own people.
Who stopped him? The Vietnamese communist dictator next door.
How did Pol rise to power? A pro-western coup deposed the local monarch when the Khmer Rouge was basically a splinter group. The pro-Western guy opened up Cambodia to regional politics -- i.e., partnered with the US to dismantle Cambodian neutrality.
The populace did not like "engagement in regional politics", and began to embrace the Khmer Rouge, which, upon taking power, took the unusual tack of shooting everybody with eyeglasses, and emptying its own country's cities.
Follow the bouncing ball, idealogues of every stripe. We had a monarch, whom we did not like, for reasons of his neutrality. We had a dictator we did like who overthrew the monarch. We had a dictator we did notlike who overthrew the dictator we did like.
Then we had a dictator next door whom we did not like, and who had kicked our ass just recently. We ended up in basic paralysis when the dictator who kicked our ass invaded the dictator who was even worse -- and ended up bitterly protesting the aggression of the country that stopped the auto-genocide in Cambodia.
Gee, the "SCUMBAG DICTATORS!" game is trickier than you thought, huh?
Great post (as usual).
I especially liked the first sentence. Nothing better than people agreeing with me, because I'm insecure and in need of reassurance. Your points about Pol Pot and the Vietnamese is right on. You'll be hearing from foggy very soon, unless there's a Lithuanian holiday going on.
DONATE TO PATSFANS.COM
RECEIVE A FREE PATS T-SHIRT AND SAVE 15% OFF WHEN YOU BUY FROM THE OFFICIAL PROSHOP!
Free T-Shirt & Save 15% Off!
Like Our Site? Please help support our site and server costs by DONATING TO PATSFANS.COM and receive a FREE PATRIOTS T-SHIRT and SAVE 15% off EVERY purchase you make from PatriotsProShop.com. You'll also receive added benefits to your account including Removing All Ads During Your Experience Here At Our Forum.
NEEDED YEARLY SITE DONATIONS: 345 | CURRENT # OF SUBSCRIBED SUPPORTERS: 98