PonyExpress

Patters et. al.,
It's pretty clear to me you've never read "Unfit for Command" the Swift Boat veterans' book. If you ever take the time to do so, you will find a sworn legal affidavit by a bunch of "crazies" as some here have described them: 210 members of the Navy, officers and enlisted, Vietnam vets from the Swift Boat Units. These are the "crazy, loony" fringe you have been demeaning. These are the "liars" the "Karl Rove pawns". Your whole line of thought, with your allusion to Wikipedia and "Factcheck" is foolish, considering you never even bothered to read their material. You got your information 2nd and 3rd hand through political supporters of Kerry, a multibillionaire who has done everything in his power to smear these men, without actually challenging their affidavits in court- what any innocent man would do to save his honor. Kerry did not, because he knows he is a liar. So don't tarnish these honorable veterans of foreign wars, and try to manipulate the public mind by using the term "To Swift Boat" to mean, "a dirty trick". These Swifties were the most honorable thing to emerge from the 2004 campaign.

Patters

60,000 young people died and most people knew someone who died or was seriously injured. The draft ended after the war ended.

Trom what I've read the Tet offensive was a failure for the North, but not a victory for the South. The Communists got control of much of the rural area and were in the process of replenishing their troops. Had we stayed, we have remained mired to the same degree we were prior to the Tet Offensive.

Sometimes the end does justify the means. I think the ending the war saved tens of thousands of American lives.

DarrylS

Have argued this before and will argue again, I respect your service, but to compare what was going on today in this context and culture is difficult. I was on the antiwar side, and a lot what you describe I saw quite differently, I was 1-A in 1968 and had a couple of physicals that summer, but never got drafted and wound up with a high number thereafter. My experiences are from the other side, when the draft ended much of the protest ended as there was a little more equitable way to get people into the service.. a few of my friends never came back and many who did choose not to talk about it. The ones who sat on the beach getting high with a mama san talk about it all the time, my incountry friends who saw a lot of combat and carnage never talk about it.

Your opinion of the war protesters being 85% - 90% is about as erroneous as some of the stuff that Kerry threw out there.. there is nothing to back it up except the spagetti theory.

__________________
"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

PonyExpress

As an antiwar protestor do you feel any responsibility for the Cambodian killing fields ( 2 million victims) and the slaughter of all our Vietnamese allies by the North upon our withdrawal? or was that just and inconvenient byproduct of "Peace"?

DarrylS

Absolutely not, I am not responsible for what Pol Pot and am not responsible for Ted Bundy, Eric Nichols or what anybody does, that is a pretty stupid question I think you need to vary your reading or diet or whatever you ingest as these comments are only talking points. Piss poor ones at that. I protested the war because I thought it was wrong, just as I think the situation in Iraq is wrong also. Overall war is wrong and it is very seldom justified.

__________________
"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

PonyExpress

I see. So the fact that the consequence of our withdrawal from Vietnam was the slaughter of millions of people, and that you protested on behalf of that withdrawal, has no impact on your conscience. Interesting. I expect your advocacy of a withdrawal from this war, and the horrifying consequences of such a withdrawal, will also fail to dent your sense of moral superiority.

Patters

How do you see Pol Pot as a consequence of ending the war? The problems in Cambodia had nothing to do with what was going on in Vietnam. Vietnam was not even allied with Pol Pot (and a decade later defeated his military).

I see the west by entering the war destablized the region, and that created opportunities for Pol Pot. If we had not been in Vietnam, we might have been able to consider some action against Cambodia. We face a similar situation now. Because we're in Iraq, we're not in a good position for considering action against Iran.

DarrylS

You are a sick, self serving clown that begs any semblance of reason, why ask if you have the answer.. I do not possess moral superiority, the war in Viet Name was based on false intelligence and lies, the war in Iraq is based on false intelligence and lies. War is not the answer, it is the problem.. I lost quite a few friends in Viet Nam both physically and psychologically, the ones that made it respect me and my position as I respect theirs. For the grace of god go I, as without a doubt I would have come back addicted if I came back at all.

I suspect that you life experience does not date back to the 60's, if it did you might begin to understand that things were much different than right wing revisionist history.

__________________
"Being the best doesn't mean you always win. It just means you win more than anyone else".. tweet from Kurt Warner to Tom Brady.

scout

As a war hawk, do you feel any responsibility for the dead students at Kent State?

PonyExpress

The Kent State protest was against US intervention in Cambodia. Under pressure from the anti-war movement the US Congress suspended aid to the government of Cambodia in 1973. The immediate result was Khmer Rouge rapidly expanding control across the country. The Lon Nol government ran out of ammunition. Khmer Rouge then took Phnom Pen and 3 million people died. In South Vietnam, Hundreds of thousands of our South Vietnamese supporters were murdered. Cause and effect could not be more stark. The harmless, peace and love protestors in the US, with all the noble ideals with which they still cloak themselves, these "veterans" of the "peace" movement have blood on their hands. Deal with it.