'04 minority voter suppression allegations getting uglier for Good Ole Boy Party - Page 3 - New England Patriots Forums

Pujo · 06-20-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

Investigate any voter fraud.

Plese define Voter fraud?

I define it as unregistered voters, the dead still on the rolls 'voting' non existent people being registered and voting, people voting in two different states.

Those are all valid examples of election fraud, but by no means the only examples. It can also take the form of telling people they don't have the right to vote when they do (like the phone calls made to people telling them that if they've ever been arrested, they may not vote), or not allowing them into the polls even though they're properly registered. It can take the form of not counting proper votes, or double counting other votes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

In places in NJ you don't have to present ID when you vote. According to some Being asked to present an ID is 'intimidation'.

If the law says you don't have to present ID and you get asked to present ID, that's a serious problem.

***patsfan13*** · 06-20-2007, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Those are all valid examples of election fraud, but by no means the only examples. It can also take the form of telling people they don't have the right to vote when they do (like the phone calls made to people telling them that if they've ever been arrested, they may not vote), or not allowing them into the polls even though they're properly registered. It can take the form of not counting proper votes, or double counting other votes.

If the law says you don't have to present ID and you get asked to present ID, that's a serious problem.

The law says you have to present an ID. The idea that a person shouldn't have to present a valid ID is obscene. You should have to present ID to vote as much as cash a check.

As to the phone call, if the recording says you can't vote if you've ever been arrested, that would be wrong. If OTOH it pointed out that you can't vote if unregistered, a convicted felon, or a non citizen, then I would have no problem with it.

Pujo · 06-20-2007, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13

The law says you have to present an ID. The idea that a person shouldn't have to present a valid ID is obscene. You should have to present ID to vote as much as cash a check.

As to the phone call, if the recording says you can't vote if you've ever been arrested, that would be wrong. If OTOH it pointed out that you can't vote if unregistered, a convicted felon, or a non citizen, then I would have no problem with it.

The specific recording I'm talking about told people that if they've ever been arrested or had a family member arrested, they were ineligible to vote. I'm not saying it's a GOP conspiracy at the highest level, but it's the type of behavior we should prosecute, along with dead Democrats voting.

***patsfan13*** · 06-20-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

The specific recording I'm talking about told people that if they've ever been arrested or had a family member arrested, they were ineligible to vote. I'm not saying it's a GOP conspiracy at the highest level, but it's the type of behavior we should prosecute, along with dead Democrats voting.

I agree. 10 char

Real World · 06-20-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

If the law says you don't have to present ID and you get asked to present ID, that's a serious problem.

Don't you think we should have to identify ourselves? I think people should have to prove they are John Doe in order to vote. IMO anyway.

Real World · 06-20-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

The specific recording I'm talking about told people that if they've ever been arrested or had a family member arrested, they were ineligible to vote. I'm not saying it's a GOP conspiracy at the highest level, but it's the type of behavior we should prosecute, along with dead Democrats voting.

Absolutely. Every election someone does something terrible for some candidate or party. Niether set of losers is innocent of this. Whether it's actual party officials conspiring, or a set of fanatical volunteers who take it upon themselves, it should be investigated, and prosicuted to the fullest extent of the law. When you plaster these losers on the front page of a paper, and send them down to Bubba for 5 to life, you'll see fewer and fewer instances of fraud & intimidation.

BTW, is someone is stupid, and doesn't know how to vote, that is their problem. Let's not confuse actual criminal behavior with stupidity.

Fogbuster · 06-20-2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pujo

Unless you're a complete partisan, I wouldn't call any of those scandals - involving either party - as non-events. Voter fraud isn't an attack by the Democrats agaist the Republicans, or by the Republicans against the Democrats, it's an attack by Republicans and Democrats alike against the voters. Unless you want to go on the record as not believing in democracy, don't brush off election fraud.

Your problem is you want to isolate all those issues that favor your predisposition, like "voter fraud". If you *truly* are concerned about "voter fraud", then why don't you acknowledge the votes of military personnel in the 2000 election, those votes that were trash-canned by Democrat voting district chairmen/women??

I'm more than ready to discuss "election fraud", whether it is done by left, right, Dem or Repub, but once into this, we discuss it *ALL*, not just cherry-picked anecdotes that fulfill *your* personal agenda.

//

***Patters*** · 06-20-2007, 09:44 AM

The right manufactured issues of voter fraud in response to the sharp accusations against them since they defeated Gore. Up until that point, to the best of my recollection, the right wing did not seriously charge the Democrats with voter fraud in decades. Every election has some fraud. Every election has isolated incidents of this kind of behavior.

What's worrisome about the accusations of Republican voter fraud is that it appears far more widespread and far more strategic than most voter fraud. The fact that there is now evidence of this strategy at play in our Justice department is dangerous, but the fact that right-wingers will continue to make excuses for this kind of behavior is most alarming of all. The bottom line is that all voter fraud should be investigated as a threat to our democracy.

The voter ID issue is just one of many issues that need to be addressed, but it's worth considering that the likelihood of a huge number of individuals engaging in fraud is probably far less than the likelihood the kind of fraud that involves the participation of only a few well-placed people. These types of fraud include equipment manipulation, strategic placing of voting machines, making rules the reduce transparency, placing old and unreliable machines in key districts, and distributing misinformation about voting.

***patsfan13*** · 06-20-2007, 09:51 AM

Fraud as in the 1960 election 9Remember Daly/Chicago?

It was taken for granted. Whne Gore went crazy the rules changed.

***PATSNUTme*** · 06-20-2007, 09:58 AM

Real voter fraud should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law.

"Voter Supression" is a laugh. It's election day- go vote. I guess that people who cry "voter supression" assumes that people are idiots. If you really want o vote, will a letter or a phone call stop you? If people are going to quit on their rights that easily, do they really want to vote.

The fact is that Gore lost to Bush and Kerry lost to Bush because they were awful candidates. Get over it. Maybe the next one, although the Dem's candidate field is really depressing.

What ever happend to Evan Byah from Indiana? Maybe too much in the center to win the Dem primaries. That is a guy how could win the Gereral Election as a candidate. Right now I don't see any Dem taking a "red" state and I see a couple of blue states in play for the Reps.

I still hope that a couple of reasonable, good candidates will break away from the two parties and give them both a bloody nose.