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I don't think the vote would go that way. People say that to pollsters because they think they're supposed to.
Conservatives always lose in the long run ? Quit making bull***** up and stating it as fact.
All I'm saying is that it would be close (even though the polls seem to show that advocates have the upper hand).
As far as conservatives losing in the long run, the evidence is overwhelming: abortion, civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, slavery, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, minimum wage, EPA, etc. It's pretty difficult to think of a major conservative victory, not that there haven't been periods where progress was stifled. But, it honestly seems to me, that conservatives (both Dem and Republican) have few feathers in their cap. The fact that the only age group in Massachusetts that is opposed to gay rights is over 65 is not a good sign for your side.
List the major conservative victories of the last 100 years, and let's stack them up side by side against the major liberal victories. I've asked righties here to do that before, but no one has responded. Perhaps you will.
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Unfortunately, just about everyone knows this statement is simply not accurate. The gay lobby is desperate to avoid a public referendum... if what you said above was true, they would be begging for one since it would help them out in countless ways.
No, you're wrong. The main reason to avoid a referendum is that it's the view of all civil rights advocates that rights should be subject to public referendum. Had we voted on spending tens of millions of dollars for handicapped access, it might have been voted down in some states. Had we voted on interracial marriage, it would have been voted down in some states. (A 2004 election in Alabama suggested 51% of the people there opposed interracial marriage.) There were periods when the rights of Jews, Irish, Italians, and others would have been curbed in some states. Human rights should not be subject to a vote. That's why they are embedded in the Constitution.
At any rate, your view of how a public referendum would turn out is not based on polls, so what's it's based on?
As far as conservatives losing in the long run, the evidence is overwhelming: abortion, civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, slavery, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, minimum wage, EPA, etc. It's pretty difficult to think of a major conservative victory, not that there haven't been periods where progress was stifled.
I guess it depends on what you call "winning" but if killing babies is winning then good for you.
As a conservative I've been generally happy with things until the big spending Republican showed up. We've had low taxes, enormous growth in the stock market which helps almost everyone, growth in the wealth of people from the bottom to the top. Social security is a blight on us and shame on us for keeping it as is. But I hardly think liberals are happy with the minimum wage - just because there is one doesn't mean you are continuing to win that fight. The biggest problems we have are brought on by Democrats, a refusal to let the poor become part of the investor class, make their own money and leave it to their kids. I guess if you consider keeping future generations dependent on the government then, yes, you are winning.
There was another thread recently about the death penalty for pornographers in Iran under Islamic Sharia law. This thread on taking a stand on homosexual relationships feels like almost the same.
All over the world the misuse of sex is viewed, as it always has been throughout history, as the worst evil of all evils. People have been executed for adultery, fornication, and homosexuality from the beginning of human time until now (see: "honor killings").
The way the world is so condensing today, with the entire world connecting as one big family, one thing is certain: there is going to be *one* set of morals and standards of behavior, particularly sexual behavior, that will apply to all people on earth, and it will be backed by iron rule. There will not be any room for breaking the norm.
And the norm will be very simple, but also very absolute: one man, one wife. Forever and ever. It is the only fair and equitable, as well as fulfilling, arrangement conceivable.
Anyway, I know there are those who will take violent issue with this statement, but it is to no avail. The human race as a "people" know that we cannot break the norms that are fair and equitable for all. It is what it is. All we can do is get with the program. A hundred years from now there will be no such thing as "gay marriage" or pornography (out in the open, at least). Misuse of sex is the fundamental sin against the cosmos and is destined to disappear forever.
That's what I was saying too, it's an insult to people who actually had a lack of civil rights - no right to vote, etc. Patters - go to the back of the bus
If you were a different person, you'd be a different person. There's no telling what your views would be if you were raised as a black person, for instance.
Are you aware that in many places people can be fired and denied housing for being gay? Are you aware that marriage protects estates, creates certain rights with regard to a hospitalized or otherwise incapacitated spouse, provides for some Social Security benefits, protects kids (and many gay couples have kids), provides some employee benefits, etc.? Of course you're aware of those things, but having no experience as a minority you perhaps take them for granted. If your civil rights aren't affected, you obviously don't care. In fact, I know your view of the civil rights. You think private employers should be allowed to discriminate, so in my opinion your views are really in line with another era when minorities "knew their place." Like I said, conservatives seldom win in the long run. (Soon we'll have immigration reform and more and more states are moving towards civil unions, if not gay marriage.)