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The thing is, BelichickFan, even if the government went around and rounded up 1,000 people at random and shot them, it's very likely that it wouldn't affect you. After all, what's 1,000 people out of the 300 million who are here? Your chances of getting shot would be 0.003%, yet we (and you) wouldn't find it acceptable.
That is true. But I was responsing to :
"The Patriot Act itself dealt an irreparable blow to justice"
If the discussion were about a few things that were wrong, it might be a little different - and for the detainees I do think we should either charge them or deport them. But the statement above is a generic, far reaching one that reads as if it's applicable to the average person.
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What liberties are people losing ? And how many of them are just innocents ? And of those liberties which are real and which are theoretical ? I'm very comfortable if the government can tap the phone of known terrorists to see who they're talking to - very comfortable indeed.
I'm no fan of a police state, but that question you pose is one that very few people can ever answer. The reality is that you have to have increased means of security in this day and age, and will have to have more as society becomes more technologically advanced, and the destructive capabilities of evil people increase in size. The key is to find the right balance that doesn't restrict citizen rights, while at the same time ensure those citizens safety.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
The thing is, BelichickFan, even if the government went around and rounded up 1,000 people at random and shot them, it's very likely that it wouldn't affect you. After all, what's 1,000 people out of the 300 million who are here? Your chances of getting shot would be 0.003%, yet we (and you) wouldn't find it acceptable.
Yeah but the government isn't rounding up 1,000 people and shooting them.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Sould we have applied the same standard to axis prisioners during WW2? Or Korea?
The idea is that you detain enemy combatants until the end of hostilities. In this case until Al Queda calls off the War they declared on the US in the 90's.
I'm talking US citizens, not "enemy combatants". And yes, the interrment of US citizens of Japanese decent was wrong during WWII.
I'm talking US citizens, not "enemy combatants". And yes, the interrment of US citizens of Japanese decent was wrong during WWII.
Which US citizen has been held without a hearing? I am not aware of any?
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"Some guys play in all-star games, some guys don't. I don't know who picks all those all-star teams. In all honesty, I don't know who picks the combine, for that matter," Belichick said. "How does (Miami-Ohio offensive lineman Brandon) Brooks not get invited to the combine? How did Vollmer not get invited to the combine? I don't know. We can't really worry about that. We just have to try to evaluate them the best we can."
This is Wiki, but it'll give you a general idea of what happened during WW II. Now, mind you, I'm not a fan of Gitmo, and do feel that some form of due process must be instituted. However, we are dealing with uniniformed terrorists who do not represent a nation. Terrorism, and 'ists, present a new monster in a legal sense.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Last edited by Real World; 06-14-2007 at 10:08 AM..
You have so little faith in our nations founding document, its virtually treasonous.
Your inherent fear of the unknown should not be used as an excuse to undermine the US constitution. Thanks but no thanks. Thats the same argument gun control activists attempt to use to repeal the second amendment. It also the attitude that creates an acceptance of dictatorship.
and you call yourself a libertarian????
You are far from one my friend. Between this and your extremist pro-life position (again, you want government control over private decisions), you are the exact opposite of a libertarian.
An abortion is a private decision? It's murder. What about the babies rights? Abortion and the constitution? Do you really think that our founding fathers would have approved of abortion? According to PAtters, Jesus Christ was pro-choice, so I'm guessing you're going to say they would.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Thankfully! I was just poking a hole in BelichickFan's argument, since it could be used to justify that kind of thing.
I don't think anyone in this country would support rounding up people and exectuing them. We're not Palestine you know.
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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." Leo Tolstoy, 1897
Re: Rule of Law: 1, Police State: 0
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