Brownfan80

Then I'll ask you as well, since you're bashing the film and film-maker without addressing the facts presented:

What in F911 was untrue? Forget telling me about his slant. I saw it when I watched the film and disregarded it immediately. I don't need a lesson on 'understanding Moore'. What I am looking for is the other side of the story as far as the facts presented are concerned. I'm trying to find the truth between the lines.

PATSNUTme

If you really mean that BF80 you will forget that you ever saw that film and do your own research.

Moore does have a way of taking half facts and half truths and blowing them up in a way to make them no thruths and no facts, just want he wants them to say. I watched this a while ago and turned it off after a half hour. I really don't remember much of it. However, people who do know facts laugh this off.

I will admit that I do lean to the right politically on most issues. But, when it comes to war and national security there should be no right or left in this country. Unfortunately that is not the case- for many people things are only seen through "my party" instead of my country.

I'm sick to death with both the Democrats, how I was raised, and Republican, which I became when Reagan came into office. There have been great leaders from both parties but there are none now- just party hacks.

So, if you are looking for facts it's going to be hard. But, you will be able to find some if you look and don't go to the party hack sites for them.

Real World

Bingo! It was opinion, not fact. What's funny is how it won awards as a "Documentary" when it was not one. Hmmm....bias? Nah!

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

I dunno, they all owned slaves so you tell me.


BTW, I think a Moderator was warning people about hijacking this thread. You should try to pay attention and obey the rules.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

pats-blue

BF80, not sure what your point was with your post. 1st you post how much of F9/11 is "fact". When some respond with links about the facts that are played loosely to say the least by Moore you say "I need reference points and facts" Well what facts do you want to know about exactly? You mention the oil fields in Iraq and such but common sense is you secure those first that is common sense but Moore plays it like it is simple as "blood for oil".

Patters said it best it is an OP-ED Piece, which means he cut and manipulated the factsto get his slant. Then you go into your tiraid on Fox news. Can you show me the post where any poster here said "watch Fox news"? You post you posted the same thing on other web sites and "extreme right wingers" gave you responses that you don't seem to like. I think you are being disengenious on your political leanings after professing niether right or left because everything you are posting here points to "trolling" in the political sense(I know your NOT a troll at all just a figure of speech) to inflame with no real intention of real discussion as posters had put up links to people with all kinds of time that "debunked" or showed Moores slant or loose interpitation of the "facts" real or imagined it is a BIAS piece of film...even Patters admits it. You got your answer but IMO you show you are feigning indignation and no right or left slant with your "extreme right wing" comments. Face it your feelings on this subject are strongly left (nothing wrong with that just don't post like you are undecided as your posts show you are far from politically non-partisan at least on this subject)

By the way in case you don't lurk here much of the back and forth here has nothing to do with this thread it is ongoing feuds and both sides calling the other to the carpet for numerous other threads, I think that is readily apparent....

Patriot_in_NY

Not true, you came in with SOME slant one way left or right. Unless you're 10, you, like most grown ups, have long formed some opinion (logical or illogical) about politics, this administration, 911, and other topics of our time and whether or not you trust or don't trust.

Now you may have just watched the movie, but its disingenuous to tell us all that you are neither predisposed to either 1) believe or 2) disbelieve what you saw.

Be honest from the start and I'd be inclined to answer the question, albeit with my admittedly conservative bias

Because I'm smart, the way you used the word FINALLY in this statement actually answers the above question for me.

Patriot_in_NY

Pats-blue,

Touché, you beat me to it, but only by a minute

Real World

You always need to do your homework. If something in the film caught your eye, or raised concern, then research it, using multiple sources, and conclude for yourself what you believe to be true. Asking questions here is fine. I'm not saying this as a criticism of any kind, I'm merely putting forth how to best answer a question. Remember, everyone has a perspective or slant. Everyone has a POV (point of view). Ultimately you need to decide for yourself what's right or wrong, accurate, or untrue. Moore looses lots of credibility with me because he fudges truths. He splices video footage, and missuses people's quotes to fit his agenda. He does what an extremist on either side would do. I don't care if someone has a perosnal opinion, so long as they do not distort the truth in presenting that opinion. People like Moore, Limbaugh, Coulter, Maher, etc...prey on the weak and uninformed.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

How about Abortion Qui? Patters thinks that Jesus was Pro-Choice.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897

Real World

Nothing actually. What it does illustrate is that a Moderator of a certain POV, warned everyone to follow the thread topic, and to not hijack the thread with irrelevent topics, only to hijack it himself.

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"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him."
Leo Tolstoy, 1897