Gisele takes on the Vatican, stumps for condom use - Page 2 - New England Patriots Forums

Fogbuster · 06-07-2007, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage

Exactly how is it that the God Squaders condemn contraception and abortion at the same time? Perhaps they merely want everyone to just boink with the mindset of having babies, and nuclear families of 10+ kids to support the tax-paying work force... And with two salaries required to merely get by in today's inflated economy of privatization, good luck to baby-making couples at actually raising their kids themselves... Perhaps they should just all give 1/3 of their salaries to the church and Jesus will take care of everything ... Just don't have sex unless you're making a baby....

Actually, you bring up a good point: in God's original world of no sin, no fall, Adam and Eve were doing very well. Problems began only *after* the "serpent" (Lucifer, the archangel who became Satan) tempted Eve into a fallen love relationship, which she then multiplied with Adam, too. I'm sure everybody has read this in the first two chapters of Genesis in the Bible.

Had the first humans NOT fallen under Satan's sway of self-centered love, then Adam, Eve, and all their descendants would be able to multiply to their hearts' content. By now we would probably be living all over the solar system and beyond. Each child would be as precious as God Himself because he or she would be a pure manifestation of the Creator's original love. Things like birth control and abortion would be unthinkable because every act of love would represent the fulfillment of what God created us for: eternal joy and happiness based upon eternal love, true love.

Your point about the pressures of extreme privatization is also valid: had the first humans multiplied under God's true love, then all possessions would belong to God and under the stewardship of His children, centered upon the parents. Thus, sharing and communalization of resources would be the natural order of this one big human family, eliminating the extreme waste of over-production where everyone "needs" their own car/SUV to drive to work by one's self, their own Skil saw, lawn tractor, or house on the Cape/the lake/ etc. Just think of all the oil wasted by so many millions of cars driving only one person all over the place!

We only need to get back to the original quality of heart and love that Adam and Eve had BEFORE they were tempted by the selfish devil, Satan. Though it is not easy -- like UNlearning any bad habit -- it certainly CAN -- and eventually MUST -- be done because true love is the strongest power in the cosmos. It just needs to be started by someone.

That "someone" has been expected for thousands of years. Called the "messiah" (original Judaic term) or the "Christ" (in Christian terminology), such a person is simply doing what Adam SHOULD have done the first time -- and what Jesus was trying to do until he was crucified; he did say, by the way, that he would return. One world family of true love is all that God has ever wanted or expected. Such a new standard of relationship would solve all the problems that have burdened humankind throughout history.

And one-third is a nice figure, too. Instead of a coerced tax system, a voluntary offering for public maintenance would be like paying "dues" to be a member of God's original human family. Not a bad deal at all, in my opinion.

//

***DarrylS*** · 06-07-2007, 04:40 AM

Apparently she carrries a lot of weight in Brazil as I read somewhere she is their #1 celebrity... Brazil has a huge inner city problem, that is fed by small children, saw a movie about 25 years ago called, "Peixote".. was about street kids who in Brazil who huff just about anything, engage in crime and are used as prostitutes just to get by. The issue here is related to poverty, urban issues and the demise of the agrarian economy upon which these countries used to thrive.

Lifer · 06-07-2007, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patters

http://www.lifenews.com/int318.html

Supermodel Giselle Bundchen made news on Wednesday but not because of a fashion shoot or appearance on the runway. Instead, she's getting press as a result of her speaking out in the overwhelmingly Catholic nation of Brazil about the Church's position on abortion.

Bundchen, called the Catholic position on abortion and sexuality outdated because she says it was adopted at a time when "the women were virgins and the guys were virgins"

"Today no one is a virgin when they get married ... show me someone who's a virgin!" she demanded.

well isnt that wonderful? brilliant.

Asked about abortion, the supermodel replied that women should have the right to have one if they want, even in dubious circumstances.

especially if they are rich and want to mess around whenever they want.

"If she thinks she doesn't have the money or the emotional condition to raise a child, why should she give birth?"

hey, this about some up the mental mindset of this fallen world. The heck with the Pope or God or the Bible. Im going to set my moral compass by a linthead model!!

***Patters*** · 06-07-2007, 07:53 AM

I think GJAJ15's point should be well taken. Gisselle comes from Brazil where there are many social problems, some of which could be addressed with more birth control. Of course, the alternative might be for pro-lifers to kick in all the money they possibly can to try to adopt Brazilian kids, fund resources to help, those kids, etc. But, in general, I think the pro-lifers don't want to put up or shut up. They simply want big government to pass a law in the hope that it will force poor women to bring unwanted children into this world.

While I don't agree with Fog's understanding of the historical evolution of this problem, the problems created by sex have been around since the dawn of man, and while we try to develop effective and more agreeable alternatives, abortion and condoms are part of the solution .

sdaniels7114 · 06-07-2007, 08:15 AM

I don't think its so much a matter of the church being permanently against condoms. I think they're just incredibly slow at changing with the times. I know we've had reliable condoms for better than 50 years now; but that's still 'new' to them. God said 'go forth and multiply.' They wanna be 1000% sure that we've accomplished what he wanted before they back off.

***QuiGon*** · 06-07-2007, 08:58 AM

Could a moderator please merge this thread with "Gisele takes on the Vatican"...? They are identical and there is no reason to have two separate threads on this one issue.

***QuiGon*** · 06-07-2007, 09:18 AM

Um, hello..? I know you're out there. Could we please do the merge I mentioned in my previous post..? TIA.

Fogbuster · 06-07-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJAJ15

Apparently she carrries a lot of weight in Brazil as I read somewhere she is their #1 celebrity... Brazil has a huge inner city problem, that is fed by small children, saw a movie about 25 years ago called, "Peixote".. was about street kids who in Brazil who huff just about anything, engage in crime and are used as prostitutes just to get by. The issue here is related to poverty, urban issues and the demise of the agrarian economy upon which these countries used to thrive.

Poverty is of course an issue in the uber-capitalist world, where we are all "competitors" against one another and where "losers" get the short end of the stick.

But the other underlying issue is the lack of the moral commitment toward creating true lasting families, where all children are wanted, loved and cared for as blessings from heaven. Without such a standard, the poor will just keep multiplying more poor, and even the rich will produce more morally challenged offspring. I'm sure if you gave free box of a gross of condoms to every man and woman in Brazil there would still be a problem of wild children on the streets. Same goes for anywhere else in the world.

Creating ideal families blessed by God and True Parents, where the parents have sworn off self-centered temporary love for the sake of eternally blessed love, where children are welcomed as God's blessings, is the only solution, I am convinced.

//

***Patters*** · 06-07-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Poverty is of course an issue in the uber-capitalist world, where we are all "competitors" against one another and where "losers" get the short end of the stick.

But the other underlying issue is the lack of the moral commitment toward creating true lasting families, where all children are wanted, loved and cared for as blessings from heaven. Without such a standard, the poor will just keep multiplying more poor, and even the rich will produce more morally challenged offspring. I'm sure if you gave free box of a gross of condoms to every man and woman in Brazil there would still be a problem of wild children on the streets. Same goes for anywhere else in the world.

Creating ideal families blessed by God and True Parents, where the parents have sworn off self-centered temporary love for the sake of eternally blessed love, where children are welcomed as God's blessings, is the only solution, I am convinced.

//

Even if one was to agree with you said, the reality is that those ideas are not catching on fast enough to help many people. So, they're intellectually useful, but in the meantime things like birth control are providing a practical piece of the solution.

***DarrylS*** · 06-07-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fogbuster

Poverty is of course an issue in the uber-capitalist world, where we are all "competitors" against one another and where "losers" get the short end of the stick.

But the other underlying issue is the lack of the moral commitment toward creating true lasting families, where all children are wanted, loved and cared for as blessings from heaven. Without such a standard, the poor will just keep multiplying more poor, and even the rich will produce more morally challenged offspring. I'm sure if you gave free box of a gross of condoms to every man and woman in Brazil there would still be a problem of wild children on the streets. Same goes for anywhere else in the world.

Creating ideal families blessed by God and True Parents, where the parents have sworn off self-centered temporary love for the sake of eternally blessed love, where children are welcomed as God's blessings, is the only solution, I am convinced.

//

A very idealistic view of the world that some share, but somewhere out there is a reality that is divorced from all of this, using condoms is not a bad thing.. particularly as unwanted children become involved in sex traffic, crime and overall very negative things that are not good for them. In an ideal world parents would have children, raise them in a good home and find work to support their needs... but this is not what happens in inner cities in countries that are next to the 3rd world. Day to day poverty sucks, and there is no way out for most of them.